127 - Dan Jarvis: Camino de Santiago Mistakes I Made — and Why I Keep Going Back

Ever wonder what mistakes pilgrims make on the Camino de Santiago?
In this episode, Dan Jarvis shares his biggest lessons, surprises, and why he keeps returning to walk the Camino again and again.

Join host Leigh Brennan of The Camino Cafe Podcast for a heartfelt and insightful conversation with Dan Jarvis, creator of Camino Hacks and Tips. Together, they explore what the Camino teaches us when things don’t go as planned — from packing regrets and planning missteps to the deeper emotional lessons of walking The Way.

Dan opens up about what led to his first Camino de Santiago journey in 2016, as well as stories from the numerous other Caminos he has walked since then. He shares vulnerable moments of struggle and self-discovery, and how walking continues to heal his anxiety and shape his purpose. Whether you’re a first-time pilgrim or a seasoned walker, this episode offers a mix of inspiration, laughter, and honest reflections from the trail and life back home. 

🎧 In This Episode:

• Common Camino de Santiago mistakes (and how to avoid them)
• What keeps Dan coming back to the Camino Frances
• How the Camino helps Dan with anxiety and restores clarity
• The power of solo travel and pilgrimage
• Lessons learned from years of walking The Way

🛤️ About Dan Jarvis:
Dan is a UK-based Camino pilgrim who has been walking Caminos since 2016. He is the content creator of Camino Hacks and Tips, a YouTube Channel, where he shares his passion for the Camino along with practical advice and heartfelt stories to help others prepare for their own Camino de Santiago journeys. Camino Hacks and Tips has over 3 million views! Visit the links below to connect more with Dan! 

🔴 ▶️Camino Hacks and Tips YouTube Channel 

https://www.youtube.com/@Caminohacks

Episodes mentioned in the interview:

🔴 ▶️Camino Primitivo https://youtu.be/CHoj97X2vR8?si=IeffATBD83hTTuD5

🔴 ▶️The Truth About Walking the Camino de Santiago - 6 Things You NEED to Know Before You Start

https://youtu.be/Pea_0sV4Uvg?si=_yfoH0Q8ddUky48h

📸 Camino Hacks and Tips Instagram https://www.instagram.com/caminohacksandtips/

Chapters

• 0:15 Welcome And Sneak Peek
• 0:46 Dan’s Next Route: Camino De Madrid
• 3:20 Why Choose Madrid Over Rainy Galicia
• 6:20 First Camino Backstory: Illness To Inspiration
• 9:45 Leon To Santiago: Clueless Starts And Lessons
• 13:15 Molina Seca Moment: Anxiety Lifts
• 16:20 Why Spain’s Caminos Feel Different
• 19:58 Best Memory: Friends, Farewell, And Fire Lit
• 23:15 Toughest Stretch: Quitting San Salvador
• 27:05 Redemption On The Primitivo
• 29:10 Becoming A Creator: From Actor To YouTuber
• 33:40 Is Camino Content Too Crowded
• 37:07 Coaching Creators With Empathy
• 41:50 Practical Filming Tips For Pilgrims
• 45:30 Filming Etiquette: Respect The Moment
• 49:01 Six Truths: No Single Proper Pilgrim

Transcript

Leigh Brennan: 0:15

Hello, pilgrims. Welcome to the Camino Cafe Podcast. I'm Leigh Brennan, your host, and boy, do we have a great show for you today. Let's take a sneak peek.

Dan Jarvis: 0:25

There is no better place in the world for a solo walker than the Community Santiago. Those worries, those anxieties about my health. Well, my anxiety hit me today. They just dissipated through the walking I'm able to bring to my YouTube videos and helping other pilgrims. Everything you could do wrong, I've done wrong.

Leigh Brennan: 0:43

So, Dan, welcome to the Camino Cafe Podcast. You are on your way to walk yet another Camino. Tell us about the one you're getting ready to walk. You're leaving tomorrow.

Dan Jarvis: 0:53

Yes. So, first of all, thank you for having me. Um, tomorrow I'm flying off to Madrid and I'm walking the Camino de Madrid. So I'll walk upwards past a beautiful town or city called Segovia, which I'm really looking forward to. And I my journey will stop in the town of Sahogun, which is on the Camino Francaise. So yeah, I'm looking forward to it, hoping I get nice weather and I don't get rained on, but we shall see.

Leigh Brennan: 1:22

I sure hope you have good weather. Uh, how many days are you projecting for that Camino for Madrid?

Dan Jarvis: 1:28

I think uh we're looking at anywhere between 10 to 12 days. I have in the past tried to push past kind of standard stages, and I have found, you know, incorrectly that my body doesn't like that. So yeah, I'd say probably around about 12 days to get from Madrid to Sahagun.

Leigh Brennan: 1:48

Yeah. And what made you pick this route? Because that's a that's not one that people typically walk very often, right?

Dan Jarvis: 1:56

No, so I I'm not the biggest fan walking in lots of rain. I was looking at the In Vienno because I wanted to go around this time in April, and I just thought, Galicia kind of rain, that doesn't appeal to me. And a friend was looking further down south, it'd be a de la plata, things like that. That's on my list to one day do it. But I just thought, what's down south, as it were, where it'll be a bit warmer. And I just happened to stumble across the Madrid, and I thought, okay, did a bit of research, and it does appear to be very quiet, but it does seem to be quite a lot of infrastructure there. Um, so I just thought, let's give it a go. Let's let's let's try something that's a bit out of my comfort zone and not kind of rain soaked. I I hope touching wood and um kind of crossing my fingers.

Leigh Brennan: 2:47

Well, from what my friends are saying uh back in Santiago, it is raining and has been raining pretty much nonstop. So you make a choice.

Dan Jarvis: 2:55

Yeah, yeah. Well, I'll let you know how good the choice was when I'm back.

Leigh Brennan: 3:00

So now you've been walking since I think uh we were talking the other day, since 2016, is when you took your first Camino. So take us back to uh where you were in life, what was going on, how did the Camino even come onto your radar? You live uh outside London right now, and uh, I'm just curious how it all came about.

Dan Jarvis: 3:21

Gosh, casting my mind back, 2016. Well, my life had well, not to be too dramatic, had been turned upside down by illness. At first, they couldn't work out what it was. I was having kind of balance, vision issues, just I just was finding it hard to function. So I was in and out of the doctors a lot, I was bedbound a lot, and whilst they were trying to find out what it was, they originally thought it was labyrinthitis, and later turned out to be migraine-associated vertigo. And I was essentially having migraines every day, and it was the world was quite a scary place, and off the bat of those migraines was kind of quite extreme anxiety. So I spent a lot of time at home, and during that period, I would watch lots of BBC travel documentaries, you know, just dreaming of when I was well enough that I'd love to go and see these places. And I watched a film called Wild with Reese Witherspoon about her trek during a difficult period in her life up the is it oh never up the west coast of America.

Leigh Brennan: 4:34

Yeah, the Pacific Crest Trail. Yeah, the PCT.

Dan Jarvis: 4:38

That's the one. And I found that such an inspiring film and uh kind of an inspiring journey. I thought I'd love to do that. And then I looked into it and I just thought that's probably a bit bit much for me where I am in my life at the moment. But I kept that in that idea in the back of my mind, and my mum suggested like a cycle tour in Europe, and she sent me this brochure online, and it was like a a cycle tour on the Camino de Santiago, and I thought, oh okay, that sounds interesting. I'd never heard of it, it sounded interesting, but I just I'd wanted to walk, I didn't really fancy it. So it it came and went, and then, as is the case with so many pilgrims, I happened to stumble across uh the way because I think having watched Wild, I wanted to watch more outdoor films. I was seeking those because my life had shrunk so much with the illness. And I watched the way, and it made me look at the Camino de Santiago differently again. I thought, oh, it's actually more aimed at walkers. So that stayed with me, and that impetus stayed with me, but because of where I was, I didn't really feel confident enough. But I put it out into the world, I just talk about it a bit, you know, it's just it's there, I I want to do it, but I don't know how I'm going to do it. And uh there was a new starter at work, and my friend who was his boss, who also worked there, mentioned it to him. And we got to talking one Friday after work, and I mentioned it. And you know, this is Frank, who if you've watched any of my YouTube videos, he pops up a lot. And Frank, so relaxed, he's almost horizontal. And he had said, I've always wanted to do it, but I've never got around to sorting it. So I was like, Well, I'd love to do it. Should we kind of do it together? We don't really know each other, but let's try and get to know each other on the walk. So we organized that and we walked from Leon to Santiago, and in my mind I just thought, get the Compostela certificate, get it done, get it ticked, and you know, that's done. And I'm, you know, off onto some new adventures. But we did it, and we'd walked with people who'd been walking from Saint Jean and just in awe of the community that was uh in front of us, around us, and we finished and we're like, I want to go back. I've heard so many amazing things about Saint Jean and Pamplona, and I just can't wait to get back. So that started a journey of going back each year and ticking off little bits until I could get enough time off to walk it all.

Leigh Brennan: 7:14

So, you know, those first couple of days out of Leon aren't the most beautiful days of the Francis. Um, so I'm curious, you know, that first morning when you woke up, you know, how did you feel? You know, you'd gone through this rough period, which sounded really awful health-wise and stressful. And so now you're there with Frank and you're setting off. What was going through your mind that first morning?

Dan Jarvis: 7:38

Nerves, I think real nerves. What I'd done, which I would which I wouldn't say I would say not to do it. I would encourage people not to do it, but I booked everything, so everything was locked in. So that anxiety I'd I kind of dealt with. But my day-to-day anxiety was still there. I kind of had gotten to know Frank. But we we were quite clueless. I remember at one time trying to get out of Lyon, we asked a bin man which way to go. We made it to the parador and then took a left rather than a right, and ended up in a field, and all these people started shouting at us. I thought these locals are a bit kind of angry, and they were shouting, and the one kind of came over and was pointing, saying, The wrong way, the wrong. I thought, wow, in the space of half an hour we've gone wrong twice. So quite clueless, really, really quite clueless. And because I'd booked the accommodation, we got, even though we went wrong, we got to our accommodation by about 11, 11:30. And then it was like, oh, okay, this is quite easy, but not. And I just remember that evening, because my bag was so so heavy, my hips they were aching so much, and I was sat in this tiny little bath with my knees under my chin, just thinking, oh god, I've got to do this again tomorrow. This is only walking. Why does it hurt so much? So I think that's what I'm able to bring to my YouTube videos and helping other pilgrims. Everything you could do wrong, I've done wrong, and we did wrong on that trip. So yeah, I can laugh at it now, and there were some fun, kind of lots of fun times, but yeah, I'd say kind of nerves, anxiety, cluelessness, but underneath it all, just uh a joy of seeing this new uh this kind of new experience, this new thing that had kind of entered my life.

Leigh Brennan: 9:42

Yeah. Do you remember a particular time uh during that walk where it kind of dawned on you, like, oh, this could be a new thing for me, or did that happen after Santiago?

Dan Jarvis: 9:55

I think there were moments where we walked down from the Cruz de Ferro. We'd met um a couple of um Kiwi girls, and we walked with them. We connected with a few other people coming down. I believe, oh gosh, I can't remember the name, the name escapes me. It's the first kind of town after um the Cruz de Ferro, where they have no the one with the flags with the big hotel with the flags. Um yeah, that's the one. So we had this kind of little group, and one of the Kiwi girls um got quite bad blisters. So we just stayed on the road, we all got to Molina Seca. There was just a little group of us, someone was tending to her blisters. Then there was another group of us that were kind of jumping in in the in the river in Molina Seca, just the joy, the laughter, drinks, you know, some uh patatas, bravas. Just I was just like, this is just a magical way to live. And I just I actually gave myself sunstroke. I enjoyed the sun so much that day. But it was just like I I had a moment, a few hours of just those fears, those worries, those anxieties about my health. Will will I have a migraine? Will or will my anxiety hit me today? They just dissipated through the walking, through the sense of community, the sense of acceptance from these strangers and the ice cold water of Molina Seka.

Leigh Brennan: 11:24

That's beautiful there, isn't it?

Dan Jarvis: 11:26

Yeah, I love it. Yeah, it's one of my favorite spots for for jumping. It will always take your breath away, no matter how hot it is. But it's it's so much fun. I can't recommend it enough.

Leigh Brennan: 11:36

Yeah, I love that village. You know, a lot of people have said to me when I um first set off to walk my first Camino and then um eventually moving there, people couldn't understand why did I have to go all the way to Spain to do this walk? You know, I I could have walked the PCT, I could have done the Appalachian Trail. We have a lot of very famous trails in the US, and you have a lot of famous walks in the UK. Why, why, what's different about going to Spain versus, you know, could you have found those things maybe on a walk? You know, I think there's that famous uh walk along the coast. Uh why not there? You know, why did it have to be in Spain for you?

Dan Jarvis: 12:13

Well, there's kind of quite a few reasons, really. Kind of cost-wise, walking in England is very expensive. You know, standing albergue back then, what, six to eight euros? Now it's anywhere from eight to fifteen. So there's a purely practical level of being able to live quite cheaply.

Leigh Brennan: 12:31

In Spain, you're meaning the cost of the year.

Dan Jarvis: 12:33

Yeah, sorry, yeah, in Spain and Portugal. Yeah, for the the the Camino infrastructure that's that's built there for walkers. There's also another thing in that, you know, I've walked, I've not walked extensively in the UK, but you know, I've walked the the West Island Way, the Great Glen Way, I've I've walked uh from kind of outskirts of London to Brighton and things like that. And the beautiful, beautifully stunning walks, especially in Scotland. The the scenery is breathtaking. But even when we were there, we were talking about the Camino. What the Camino has over all of these other walks is that yes, you're walking in nature sometimes, sometimes like on the way into Leon or things like that, it's it's not very pretty. But what the Camino does, it almost draws in just amazing people from all over the world, and it creates uh with well, it's a bit cheesy to say, but the Camino family that happens naturally on the Camino because of the Camino brings out the best in people, and there's an infrastructure on the more popular routes, maybe not so on the lesser ones, but it just it's that sense of connection, it's that sense of openness, kindness, of just meeting the best of everyone generally, and that's not I've not personally found it there with other walks. I mean, people could say differently, but there is no better place in the world for a solo walker than the community Santiago. You go solo and you will come back with friends for life, and that could almost be guaranteed.

Leigh Brennan: 14:18

Well said. Um, because you know, I think for me, like walking the Appalachian Trail or the PCT, I have not. Um, but I've done a lot of other hiking in the US. And I have to say that, you know, those maybe were solo experiences, but there wasn't a lot of camaraderie, right? Um, I didn't really see a lot of people on those walks. Um, you know, there was no stopping and staying with everyone that was doing the same thing or having meals with people that were doing the same thing. So I too found it very, very different. And I love that when you were walking in the UK, that you were literally were talking about the Camino on those walks. That's classic. Okay. What's your best memory of one of your Caminos?

Dan Jarvis: 14:59

Oh gosh, I've got one I'm actually going to write about in my next month's newsletter. So I better hold off with that one. Gosh, I'm on I'm on the spot. Most amazing Camino or Camino memories. One that probably lit the fire was in 2018, myself and Frank walked from um Saint Jean-Peterport to Lyon. And we made friends with all these amazing people from kind of Italy, America, all across Europe. And on our last day, they were all carrying on to Santiago, and they threw us a leaving party in uh this Airbnb that they had. All of these people that were strangers weeks before were just kind of they took my phone and they're leaving video messages because I said I was going to make a video of the walk. And it was just such an amazing time. And it actually felt like a breakup when I waved them all goodbye. And I stayed on the WhatsApp group as they carried on. And it it it really hurt. I felt like a lovesick teenager at work seeing these messages pop up, and uh it lit a fire in me, and it gave me the impetus to go and walk up to my boss at the time and say, next year I want to go back and I want to walk it all, you know, whether it's paid leave, unpaid leave, I'm going back because just of that warmth and that kindness, and I just thought, I've got to do it, I've got to go all the way. So it was a bit of a bitterspeak, sweet memory, but it was such an amazing catalyst that I don't know, it it took my Camino addiction into overdrive.

Leigh Brennan: 16:41

Okay, yeah, that sounds like it would. Okay, so let's go on the flip side. What's been the toughest day or toughest route where you're just like, that's it, man. I'm quitting. I don't want to do this walk anymore. Have you had a day like that?

Dan Jarvis: 16:54

Gosh, yeah. So there's a video on my uh YouTube channel, which I filmed last year, which is where I did quit. And that was on the San Salvador. I maybe I had a false sense of confidence. You know, you come having walked like one year I walked the Camino Frances and jumped on a bus and walked back from Porto back to Santiago, you know, over a thousand kilometers in my legs. But as is the case when you're not on Camino, you're you're not doing kind of the average distances a day. So I trained a bit, but getting to the San Salvador, we wanted to get to Oviedo within four or five days. So, okay, we'll do the San Salvador in four days. The first day we walked, I think the first day we walked for 10, 11 hours, then the second day was 11. And I just it made me miserable. And then I it it made me question question myself because I was like, I actually love the Camino, the Camino means so much to me, but I don't I don't want to do this, I want to go home. And it it really shocked me. And I was like, oh god, have I killed the golden goose? But I think what it was, it was just too much too soon. We were locked in again, like you know, back to 2016. With we have to get to this accommodation, there's no freedom because we've got such a tight time frame. And also our main kind of impetus for going was to walk the Primitivo, and then I started to get worried that this is going to impact it, we're gonna get to Oviedo absolutely broken, and then we just carry on. So that was tough, and it was even tougher. Well, I well, I'll I'll let the cat out of the bag. It was tougher to quit, so we quit halfway through that, and we we we got to Oviedo by other means, and that kind of hung heavy on me, and I I documented it, and and people have been quite kind in their responses, and it in hindsight, I can look back and think actually that was the right call. It was the wrong call to try and do it in four days, and it was quite I probably could have got through it, but I'd have been miserable, and then it would have potentially ruined the Primitivo. And we had one of the most amazing experiences on the Primitivo. It was like the Camino Française just condensed into two weeks, a bit less busy with amazing accommodation and just, you know, kick-ass uh views and scenery. So yeah, that was the probably one of the tougher periods and one that kind of hung heavy over me for a little while.

Leigh Brennan: 19:37

Yeah. Well, I love that you documented this because sometimes our cuminos don't go the way that we expect, right? And sometimes we have to make calls, whether it's uh what happened to you and trying to condense that into four days, or maybe there's an injury and we we've got to end it or take some days off. And I think it's important to do and listen to what our body is telling us. Or, you know, in that case, you know, for folks that have not walked to San Salvador, you know, I would liken it more to my hikes in Utah. You know, for me it was more um I I loved it, but I had more time than what you had. Um, and it is when you have to plan ahead because there are very, very few accommodations, right? And so uh you do have to plan and it's a much tougher walk. It doesn't, to me, I I loved it because it was beautiful, but it's extremely challenging. I would never recommend it to a new pilgrim because it's missing from me some of the elements that I love the most about some of the other routes, right? Like the like the frances. Um, you know, it's not stopping and having a drink with everyone part way through the day, enjoying a meal partway through the day. This to me, the San Salvador is more like a hike. Um Yeah, yeah.

Dan Jarvis: 20:50

The the wonderful thing is, I think the, you know, some people will complain about the Frances and say it's too busy and this, that, and the other, which, you know, is true, but you can still have solitude. But what I found was the Primitivo was a wonderful kind of in-between. You know, it had some of the rugged beauty of the San Salvador, but it had generally enough Camino infrastructure and enough pilgrims to be able to have those conversations, to be able to form a little family or stop at a cafe and talk to pilgrims from from all over the world.

Leigh Brennan: 21:22

Yeah, I agree.

Dan Jarvis: 21:24

It's got to be on your list next.

Leigh Brennan: 21:27

All right. Well, let's kind of shift gears. So, you know, you go from um becoming a pilgrim in 2016 to now hosting a very popular YouTube channel, Camino Hacks and Tips. Um, you know, you've got a lot of great content out there, and you know, your newsletter, you you have uh member only types of events that you'll be doing. And um, you know, so how did it go from you know walking this very first Camino to all of a sudden being this, I think, amazing content creator?

Dan Jarvis: 22:01

Well, first of all, that's very very, very kind of you. Thank you. Um, obviously, this is a you know an audio podcast, but you can't see me blushing. Um, how did I go from a clueless pilgrim to someone now telling people what to do? Um, I think it probably occurred around 2022. I walked uh after the pandemic, and I was just enjoying making little videos and you know on Instagram and sending them to each other and my group, and one of the the guys, a Belgian pilgrim, Kuhn, had said to me, You should kind of do something with this. And I was like, Well, I don't really know what to do. My experience had been in front of the camera because I'd spent many years as a professional actor. I didn't really know about the kind of technicalities, but I just enjoyed it. So that stayed with me, and I went home and I plucked up the courage to make some YouTube videos from my bedroom. So I made a few, they were kind of a bit tentative, and it was I likened it to learning and failing in public, which I found quite difficult at first, you know. And some people would comment, some friends would say, Listen, I think you need to get a microphone, this, that, and the other. And but one thing I could fall back on is that I've done a lot of writing. So I was able to kind of write scripts, and I also noticed that the barrier of entry was a bit lower for the Camino uh content. So I it's not like I was trying to compete with Mr. Beast with my mobile phone. So yeah, I found that just tentatively making videos in in quiet, and then by the fifth or sixth one, one blew up, and I was away actually in 2003 the following year, and I just walked the Camino Baz Town, another shorter route, and I turned my phone on, I just saw it going crazy with all these views, kind of 500 a thousand, a thousand, and it monetized me quite quickly. And that video has gone on to have I think over 290,000 views. I've not been able to get near that since, but it just for something I'd made in my bedroom that I tried to bring my own voice to it. And I think what I also try and do is because I've had those anxieties, because I've been that person who's made mistakes, has been embarrassed, and I try to remember that when I make videos. I try to I don't want to be that person that tells you that this is the way. Yes, if you don't want to, if you want to book everything, then you know that's that's your prerogative. But I'd encourage you to try and let go of that after a while. But if you don't feel comfortable, that's fine. So I I try and have those feelings and those thoughts running through my videos. And some people have responded quite well to that. So yeah.

Leigh Brennan: 24:54

Yeah. So back when you first walked in 2016, and even when I walked in my first one in 2019, there weren't uh as many content creators out there. Were you a YouTube viewer prior to walking? I know you saw the way you said, but were you on YouTube at all prior looking up Camino stuff?

Dan Jarvis: 25:14

I had actually tried to start a YouTube channel up in 2018 and I put some videos on that. I didn't really know what I was doing. It was more just for the people that I walked with. But prior to that, I there was a guy, I watched one documentary, which a guy, I think he had been a documentary filmmaker where he filmed himself walking the whole Camino and it had turned into a love story. I think that got quite a lot of views. But there was a guy who I used to, I would watch him while I was preparing. It was just an Englishman who would just sit on a log, I think, either near himself or on Camino, and just talk to the camera about, you know, this is what you should do, this is what you should look out for. And I was just, you know, like this eager student nodding away, writing notes. And it was very lo-fi, but it it kind of contained a lot of value, really. So yeah, and then I probably disconnected it with it for a bit. And it was, I think there's a difference between consuming and creating, and that for me was quite a major leap. So all of a sudden you go from, oh yeah, you know, this is interesting to oh god, okay, how do I make it look better and how do I make it, don't know, just not look crap?

Leigh Brennan: 26:30

Well, you know, now with our iPhones, the quality of um what we can do with a camera that's in our pockets pretty amazing today, right? Um, and so there are a lot of content creators out there. And I'm curious about a couple of things. Um one, let's start with do you think the community is too crowded today? There are a lot of people filming stuff about the Camino and putting it on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, you name it. It's out there. Do you feel it's too crowded? Is it too saturated, or do you feel do you have an opinion on that?

Dan Jarvis: 27:06

Um, well, ultimately this would just be my opinion. And I don't know if I can say it's too crowded. I mean, there's lots of people doing it. Um, they've got every right to do it as much as me, and that the people before me, you know, have just as much right. In terms of I I've spoken, like I know a few YouTubers. I work with YouTubers, I help them with thumbnails, titles, things like that. And there has been kind of some discussion. There's kind of new people emerging and popping up, and there's a there's a kind of a style called trendjacking, or you you kind of go to channels with big views and you look at their big videos and you recreate them. You know, that happens, that happens across the board on YouTube. But I think at its core, I think there should be enough room for everybody. At its core, I think whether you be a musician, an artist, a painter, when you start out, there is a level of mimicry, there is a level of trying to emulate your heroes. So I think in the beginning, lots of kind of content will seem the same and samey, and it'll be like, oh God, not another kind of Camino content creator. But if people have that staying power, you learn to know what you like and what you find your voice. Like there was a video I sent you when you know I was working with you on some of your thumbnails and some of your creative challenges. It was a talk by Ira Glass, and he talks about that period where your your taste, he says, your taste is killer when you start out, but the work that you create at first doesn't match your standards, and it's a real shock to your system. So I try and keep that in the back of my mind as I learn and I go on my journey. You know, if I look back to the videos that I shot, you know, even on the Camino in Glass, it's a tiny bit of me that cringes at, oh God, you know, why did I upload that at the wrong frame rate and things like that? So, in a roundabout way, I think there's enough room. And I think, much like the Camino Français, that you can find pockets of quietness, you can find your community. And I think it's about persevering and and kind of sticking with that and you know, seeing where the journey takes you.

Leigh Brennan: 29:28

That video that you sent me of from Ira Glass was truly life-changing for me. Um that was uh, you know, so yeah, we should talk about that. You've you've coached me and you've been coaching a lot of content creators. And, you know, um, I've told you this in person, so you you know I feel this way. But I I feel that you you have a real art of um, you have a lot of compassion, a lot of empathy. Uh, you know, I was having some really down days because you know, this takes a lot of work to create this stuff. It looks easy, you know. Trying to create a video, trying to create a show. And like you said, we have these really high standards because of we are living in a time when there is such great content and movies and you know, great content about all kinds of topics in the world, right? Outside of the Camino. So our standards, just as an individual, are extremely high. And then, you know, you think, oh, I'm gonna go out and I'm gonna record the show on the Camino and you come home. It's like, oh my gosh, it doesn't quite go that way. So you provided uh for me a little bit of uh just personal inspiration at a time that I was feeling really down about numbers, feeling really down about, you know, just how much work we put into this. I'm just curious, you know, what about your experience, your work has helped you to have such empathy for other creators and want to work with other creators? Because this has been a whole new step for you. And you've been working with a lot of people that if you watch a lot of Komino stuff, you've had, you know, a little fingerprint on some of that work. So what inspires you and what has put you in this position to be so inspiring for we other content creators?

Dan Jarvis: 31:11

Thank you. You're you're being very kind uh this afternoon. What I I think at its core is someone who has experienced kind of anxiety, who's experienced quite a lot of self-doubt and through the illness where I thought my normal life, as it were, was completely over, and through kind of medication, through altering my diet, I was able to get back and then remove that medication. That gave me an insight into kind of how bad things can be. And it's it's kind of I try and it gives me an insight, maybe it gives it it's kind of supercharged my empathy because I've been there. I when I make YouTube videos, I the the voice, you know, that gremlin of you're no good, you can't do this, it's it's deafening. Um I do find early mornings a better time to do that and to have a good night's sleep. So when I kind of spoke with you and worked with you, I could see someone who had a massive amount of passion. But I'm also mindful that I'm not going to be someone who comes in and says, That's rubbish, change this, do that. Because I've been one of the people who've been on the receiving end of that, and it's like it crushes you, it really crushes you when you're creating, you're an artist, and you put your soul out, and it's not quite there yet. It's very, very delicate. So when I worked with you, I just thought, well, we could just make some changes, we do this, we do that. And I think what also underpins it is maybe a bit of a I can get quite obsessive with things that I really enjoy. So I'll listen to podcasts about YouTube, I'll follow people on Twitter, I sign up to newsletters. There's probably also a thing in me about wanting to be good and wanting to do really well, and and that can be a positive and a negative. But I bring that to people that I think sometimes the commerce side of YouTube, of Instagram, of TikTok, that sometimes doesn't sit very well with creatives because you want to create. But unfortunately, with these platforms, you have to understand that packaging plays such an important role. Generally, the the kind of general consensus is the you the the thumbnail, which is the the main picture on YouTube, that's what draws the attention. Then the title is what determines if someone will click. And I've really enjoyed deep diving into that. There've been moments where I think I've cracked it and then I've released a video and it gets hardly any views. It's it's about iterating, it's about kind of you know, that maybe a bit cliche, but getting 1% better. So if I can bring that like I did to you, and that helps, like, you know, your you know, the the the busy Camino one, that's what, like about 11,000 views when I looked the other day. That that kind of made me happy to to show you that you know these things can work. And just little things that are so simple that people don't think about. Like to you, like when we were working on that thumbnail for Casa Susie, I'm like, you need to send me a photo with more room at the top. Well, that look that's not a good photo. No, it's not a good photo in the normal real world, but on YouTube, I need that space to put some words at the top. It's just simple things like that that someone because you were doing are and were doing so much work that these little things that you know can be quite easily missed. But that's that's not a slice against you.

Leigh Brennan: 34:50

Yeah, well, I was, I mean, until I started working with you, I was so baffled by all of it. You know, we'd spent so much time creating these really beautiful interviews or you know, whatever, beautiful content. And then yet we would not and we would not um get very high in the algorithms, right? And I had no, I had no clue about the you know this about, but I'm just confessing to this audience, right? Like, you know, when I got into the YouTube stuff, it was one thing doing the audio podcast, right? But doing YouTube, your cover photo, you know, folks, I'm talking about uh what you see, what comes up in your feed that draws your attention to watch a video. So if you're not a subscriber or even a subscriber sometimes, you know, it's gonna come up in your feed and you see that you see the little uh blurb that's on the photo, which he's talking about with the headroom, and then there's a headline. And then finally, if somebody clicks, there's the content. Well, those few things that cover photo really matters. And I never knew that. That was like I would just slap something together at the end because I finally had my content ready. So anyway, so everyone, that was a free tip you just got from a content creator coach. So can you give us two more for people that are aspiring to be a content creator for the Camino specifically?

Dan Jarvis: 36:03

Oh gosh, you put me on the spot. Um you already gave a great one. Okay, so one again that I learned, excuse me, that I learned through failure. Uh if you are deciding to go out and film on the Camino, my recommendation would be if you have a scene you're going to film, start recording before. So if say you want to watch someone walk into scene, start film press record before, and then leave it recording for a bit afterwards. There is nothing more maddening than getting back to edit, as I did for when I filmed on the Portuguese uh coastal. And I'm like, why did I stop the video there? I can't edit out of this, I can't get out of this. It's it's a nightmare. And it just just get more footage. That's what I would recommend for that. What else? Uh, another tip when filming. Um gosh, I've got trying to think of another tip. I think one thing that uh you've kind of touched on is it can be a bit scary when you start out. You know, if you look to say, you know, the Camino tellers, that the quality of their footage is kind of phenomenal or Efron, you know, Mr. Drone, you know, fine, getting all these amazing shots. But I have found generally that the Camino community on YouTube are really quite forgiving. What they want, they want a story, or they want to hear your story. So it's your truth. So if you feel brave enough, just show us your Camino. Show us your highs, show us your lows. And if it's a clunky edit or you're cross-dissolving, which is a kind of an easier way to edit, or if your music's a bit too loud, it doesn't matter so much because we're following you and we want to hear your story, want to see what it's like. Is it tough? Why did you trip up? Why did you fail? Why did you go that way? That I think should be the overriding message. And sometimes I have to remind myself that when I look to these creators with amazing color grades and drones, it's like, oh God, I'm I'm not there yet. But it's like it's okay. Just keep keep keep on keeping on as I as they say.

Leigh Brennan: 38:17

Yeah. Oh, great advice. I want to kind of flip it a little bit and say, you know, obviously when we're walking in a comino, uh, the majority of people that we're walking with are not content creators, right? Uh, and I have walked with other content creators that um have become quite obnoxious, right? Um I mean, I can remember being at one of the first peaks on the San Salvador, and there was a content creator, a fellow content creator that didn't know that I was also creating content. And um he really couldn't disrupted the moment, I have to say. Um, you know, so I mean then he was just with his iPhone or whatever. But um, and there are also complaints about drones on the Camino, and you know, people want to have the footage in order to have the beautiful footage, we do have to do some of these things. So, you know, talk to that a little bit of somebody, you know, how do how do you not disrupt? Do you think about it? Does that even come up in your mind? Um, how how do you find the balance in that?

Dan Jarvis: 39:19

Well, it's uh the irony is I think I was cutting shots too early because I was embarrassed. I was embarrassed that people were noticing I was filming them. So I would became self-conscious and would cut the filming. I think what I've discovered through trial and error, lots of error, is to let people know you know that you're filming. Um that way people can say whether they want to be filmed or not. To actually have the respect not to stick a camera in their face. I will, I've learned, you know, I've got used to it, but to try and record everything that you know I I do within reason. Um and also not to to kind of have the sense and the the realization that not everyone wants a camera stuck in their face. Or you know, coming from an acting background, I can redo things. I'm used to hitting my marks. You know, you do a take, you go back to first positions, and you repeat the exact same thing, you pick up some. I'm not saying I fake things, but if something doesn't look right, I can redo it. So it's about I think first and foremost, you need to let people know you say, I'm gonna be filming some of this. Is that okay? Because also what I found I've got a uh a video on the Primitiva, and that's been one of my favorite ones to make. And I've had a lot of good feedback from people who've watched it, friends, strangers from all over the world. And what I'd learnt like from all the mistakes as I took to that video is when you stick a camera in people's faces, and bearing in mind I use an iPhone or a GoPro, the GoPro is amazing because it's so small and it people think it's nothing, so you can get away with filming a lot more. But I learned by sticking a camera in people's faces to try and get the real experience, they'd get really uncomfortable and not want to be on camera, or you'd end up just filming them walking from behind. So, what I did with the Primitivo one is afterwards I either took out my phone using the voice note and got them to talk into it, just tell me about their experience, or they sent me voice notes and then I could put their experiences on as a voiceover, and it didn't impact them in any way, and it didn't they didn't alter their how they were with me. So I think it's about being respectful and just understanding that just because you've got a camera doesn't mean you can stick it anywhere you want.

Leigh Brennan: 41:50

Yeah, yeah. Very, very good points. Let's talk a little bit about and before we finish up here. You've had some really popular videos um recently out. One titled The Truth About Walking the Camino de Santiago, six things you need to know before you start. So let's tease everyone, because I'll have a link to this show in the show notes, but maybe give us one or two things that you talk about in that particular video.

Dan Jarvis: 42:17

Uh probably the two ones that stand out. One, there's it's talking about that first day on the Camino Française, which can be a real shock to the system, and the fact that there are alternatives within that. What I'm talking about, probably the main most famous route, which is the Napoleon route up over the Pyrenees. And also there's what a section in there, one of the tips is about kind of the perceived proper pilgrim. And that came about from me being spoken to quite rudely on a Camino forum and being called out for being a tourist or you know, recommending accommodation, which was against you know her views of what a pilgrim is. So I decided to take that and actually respond to that in the video and say just because you send your bag on, just because maybe there'll be a day where you have to get a taxi or something, you know, just because you book your accommodation, it does not mean you're a bad pilgrim. You walk your Camino your way, and I think that experience was quite negative for me, but I it it's led to something positive because so many times, so many first-time pilgrims are told there's a proper way. Yes, there is a traditional way, yes, you can be in the moment, and that's probably a more magical experience, but we don't all start at the same place. So I feel it's really important to remind people that you need to walk it your way. As long as you're respectful to others, to nature, and and to those around you, you can walk it your way. There isn't a well, there is a pilgrim police, but there's no one who's gonna tell you off for doing those things. And I think it's about listening to yourself, listening to your body and what you need and walking the Camino your way.

Leigh Brennan: 44:04

Yeah. I I love what you said there because you know, life is hard. And I think when we pilgrims go over to Walka Camino, uh, you know, we never know what somebody's been going through at home. And, you know, we can, as a pilgrim, you know, one of the things I always encourage people who are second-time pilgrims, especially, is and hopefully on your first you can too, but it might be more challenging. But, you know, it's it's a chance for us to hold space for other people and just use, you know, to be compassionate and have empathy for people because somebody who's transferring their bag, we don't know. We don't know why they're coming to do that. You know, it's and actually it's none of our business, right? So if we can just hold space and learn to not judge and just focus on our own walk, uh, it'll be a better experience for us anyway. But um, but if we can hold that space, uh, you know, the world needs a little more kindness. And I think the more people that can walk and find what you found on the Camino, that's what I hope everybody finds. And I think the more that we as pilgrims can hold that space for someone to do their Camino the way they need to do their Camino, then hopefully that's what they'll find.

Dan Jarvis: 45:14

Definitely. Yeah. And I think just to kind of add to that, it you know, say if you're walking the Camino Francaise from Saint Jean all the way, it can be a shock when you get to Saria, but you can choose how you react to that. You can, again, I think this is in the video as well. You you can merge with everyone and and and go with that vibe change. And you know, the it's almost like a bit like a party. You can stay off stage, you can do bigger stages. It's up to you. You can decide what you want to do. And I think some of those people who have walked from Sarre to Santiago, they might be poo-pooed a bit by people who've walked the longer route. But my mum walked that route and it meant so much to her. You know, I think she cried at the end when she finished it because it was such an amazing experience. So I'm not gonna sit here and say, Oh, you just did Sarah to Santiago, you're not a pilgrim. It's like, you know, that that could be monumental for that person. That you know, they could have an ailment that you know you don't know what they've been through. So it's you've got to try and switch off your everyday mind of kind of which unfortunately I can be guilty of, where you're quick to judge. Whereas on the Camino, you kind of we need to recalibrate it and like you say, try and find space for for for anyone and everyone and be more accepting of others.

Leigh Brennan: 46:33

Yeah, you know, and and that's the thing is like, you know, if you do no amount of no matter the amount of Camino that you walk, if it's a hundred kilometers, five hundred. I mean, think about that day when the very first day out of Leon for you, right? Like, why is it so hard? I only walked, right? So Camino is no walk in the park. You know, it's not climbing Everest. Okay. I've never done that, but that looks pretty darn challenging physically, right? Um, but it's also not a walk in the park. And then, you know, when somebody says to me, Oh, I I just or I only walked to this portion, and I say, No, no, no, no, no. No, you walked a comino, right? And it's all about the intention and what you do with it after. And I I want to end uh this interview with, you know, I've only known Dan since Dan found the Camino. Yeah. So I'm gonna end this with how has the Dan changed? You know, if I had met you prior to that first walk in 2016, how is the man sitting in front of me different today than what he was back then?

Dan Jarvis: 47:37

So the person kind of pre-Camino, gosh, well, I've I've kind of I was quite a dedicated actor. I didn't really reach the heights that you know, the the goals that I'd set myself. Um but I was probably a bit more petulant, a bit louder, a bit bigger, probably not as much empathy until I'd had brushes with anxiety, my health had changed. But by walking the Camino and going back every year, because I could only get, you know, a couple of weeks to three weeks, I could chart my progression as I kind of grew and and and regained my strength and my confidence. So I think post-Camino, I'm I'm not perfect, I'm human. But I like to think that the Camino is something that I've discovered that centers me, that I have this place that I know I can go back to and I can meet like-minded people and feel closer to people, closer to nature, more like myself. I often find myself saying that when I'm walking Camino, and having that, knowing that there is that place that I can go to gives me comfort. Maybe not the San Salvador straight off the bat trying to do it in four days, but the rest of the Camino. I feel very lucky to have that, and I feel that it's it's made me a more positive, empathetic, potentially open-minded person.

Leigh Brennan: 49:12

Beautiful, beautiful. So uh will you be recording some stuff on this walk that you're doing?

Dan Jarvis: 49:19

I yeah, the irony is I've said about not sticking the camera everywhere. The my camera and my drone, I'm walking with another YouTuber. So it's gonna be, yeah, if you if if you see us, hide because we're gonna be filming.

Leigh Brennan: 49:35

Unless you've always wanted to be in a uh a Camino documentary or film or whatever, then find you, right? Hey, thanks for doing this, Dan. It's been a pleasure to talk with you. Thank you for what you're doing for the Camino community by providing, I think, your uh page hacks and tips is spot on. Uh, you have so many great tips out there. And I love what you said earlier on about, you know, you you have become uh a great voice in this community because you've made all the mistakes. And I think, you know, that's how we learn. That is how we learn. And I think we also learn by sharing our stories. And thank you for being willing to come to the Camino Cafe podcast and share your own story and be so vulnerable to talk about um all the things that you've gone through. And uh, because I think sometimes people would think, oh, all this stuff is so easy, you know, and it's not. And um, you are making it in a um uh a really challenging content um community out there as far as uh just YouTube in general. And uh I'm just so excited for you and excited to see what you continue to put out there. We'll have links in the show notes, and uh yeah, we wish you a great walk and hopefully we'll be able to chat when you get back.

Dan Jarvis: 50:55

Well, thank you first of all for your kindness. It's it's it's lovely to hear that. And again, thank you so much for letting me come on this podcast. I used to listen to this podcast during lockdown, thinking, you know, wishing, waiting for the Caminos to open back up again. So that's how I first discovered you. So to finally be on this um podcast is yes, it's a pinch bee moment. So thank you so much.

Leigh Brennan: 51:20

Oh, well, that's very sweet to hear. Well, that's a wrap. Thanks for joining us today. I hope to see you in Santiago or maybe on one of the Camino routes. Please take good care, pilgrims. Ciao.