The Camino Cafe
The Camino Cafe
The Camino Calls Us Back, No Matter How Far We Wander with Rocco Rossi
2026 Camino Walks with the Camino Cafe Podcast - with Leigh and Rocco:
Email mailto:leighbrennan+caminocafe@gmail.com
This week's show is sponsored by Airas Nunes:
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If you like the work that's being done on The Camino Cafe Podcast, I'd be honored if you supported me through "Buy Me a Coffee" :
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The Camino Cafe podcast makes an exciting return as host Leigh Brennan welcomes listeners back from a hiatus caused by her move to the United States. Though she misses the immediacy of Santiago and stepping directly onto Camino paths, Leigh shares her renewed commitment to promoting pilgrim journeys as pathways toward healing.
Joining the conversation is veteran pilgrim Rocco Rossi, speaking directly from Santiago de Compostela after completing what he considers his 21st Camino since 2002. Rocco offers fascinating real-time insights about current conditions on various routes, noting dramatic differences in pilgrim traffic. While he walked the Camino Madrid completely alone, Santiago now welcomes over 2,000 pilgrims daily during Holy Week, with the vast majority arriving via the Frances or Portuguese routes.
Rocco's wisdom shines through as he explains why he keeps returning to the Camino: "If you find something in your life that brings you joy, clarity, and energy, the real question is why aren't you doing it more than once?" He likens the Camino to an oxygen mask that centers and revitalizes him annually, enabling him to better navigate life's challenges. Despite walking solo at times, Rocco emphasizes that the heart of every Camino lies in the connections formed with locals and fellow pilgrims who enrich the journey immeasurably.
The episode concludes with an exciting announcement about Leigh and Rocco potentially co-leading a group Camino in 2026, inviting listeners to share input about their ideal pilgrim experience. Whether you're planning your first Camino or your tenth, this episode rekindles the special magic that draws us to these ancient paths time and again. Email the address in the show notes to join the waitlist and help shape this future journey!
Connect with Leigh:
Camino News Update
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The Camino Cafe's intro and outro song with thanks to fellow Pilgrim, Jackson Maloney. Original Song - "Finnis Terre" - written and performed by Jackson Maloney - Singer, Musician, and Songwriter. Connect with Jackson: https://open.spotify.com/artist/3fdQsSqq9pDSwKcWlnBHKR
Hello Pilgrims. Well, I am thrilled to say the Camino Cafe podcast is back. I'm Leigh Brennan, your host. Today's show is sponsored by one of my most favorite cafes in Santiago, iris Nunez. You'll learn more about them later in.
Speaker 3:The show turned into a full-blown hiatus. I moved back to the US because I missed my daughter, I missed my family, I missed some of life in the US. You know, no place is perfect and I wish I could combine both worlds. I wish I could live in Spain and the US at the same time, and I really miss my friends back in Santiago and I miss being able to just walk out my door and take off on a Camino path. Life here proved to be a little more challenging and consuming, time-wise, than I had ever imagined it would be, but good news, I'm finally settled. Pilgrim season is starting and so is this show's new season, and I'm not going to be recording shows. I'll be trying to figure out how I can spend more and more time in Spain and walking future Caminos.
Speaker 3:I want to take a moment to add a heartfelt thank you to all of you that reached out while the show was on break. I'm telling you your words of concern and kindness and saying you missed me, you missed the show. They were all just beautiful, absolutely beautiful reminders of the power of connections that we make while walking the Camino. So thank you everyone for your support. You know, being back in the US, it's really fired up my already strong belief that we all need to walk Caminos, and I am more committed than ever in promoting the Camino as a pathway towards healing from whatever is challenging you in life. In fact, I, along with a few co-guest facilitators, will be leading Camino retreats in Spain in 2026. You can get on our waiting list or send us ideas about what you would like to see. If you'd like to walk with us in a group tour, there's an email link in the show notes and if you email us, you'll be the first to know when registrations open up. We'll talk more about that later in today's show. Well, I'm busy planning my next personal Camino and I'm guessing, because you're here listening, that you're doing the same thing. And I know, if you're here listening to this show, that you are a part of this global Camino family, that you support others and walking their first Camino and you are looking forward to walking your first or maybe your 10th.
Speaker 3:I can't think of a better pilgrim to open up this new season of the Camino Cafe podcast, and that is Rocco Rossi. He just completed another walk and he's going to give us up-to-the-moment updates about what's going on on the Camino routes right now. He'll join us shortly. You know him. He's a fan favorite here. He's been a frequent contributor to this show and the Camino News Update. First, though, I wanted to ask if you like what I've been doing here today and for the past three years. I'd be so honored if you would support my work through Buy Me a Coffee. There's a link in the show notes. Thanks for your support. Next episode will be a Camino News update and, following that, a great interview with Judy from Spanish Steps. I can't wait to share her interview, so stay tuned. It's going to be an amazing season of episodes. And now let's get to today's show. All right, everyone, we've got Rocco Rossi back here at the Camino Cafe podcast, and guess where he is? Everyone.
Speaker 4:I'm in the lovely rainy city of Santiago de Compostela, got in here yesterday a little after noon from Pedruzo with my Camino family. We all walked our own pace through the Primitivo but we agreed that we'd all meet at Monte D'Agozzo, five kilometers before the cathedral, and walk in together as a family. And, as you know, I've walked many Caminos and I've gone into Santiago many times and it just never gets old. You look around at the faces and the emotions and the hugging and you look at the walking wounded people with wrapped knees and limping and you know, walking on more blister than feet, yet just smiles from ear to ear. And yeah, it's a very emotional time. And then a final dinner with the family, and so I'm in a really bittersweet moment right now.
Speaker 3:I bet. What number Camino is this? Have you kept count?
Speaker 4:Well, I've come to Spain, Portugal or France 21 times since 2002. And I count too, and and I count uh the times as a camino as opposed to uh the numbers with within, because each of them is that voyage. So this time, for instance, I started in madrid, got off the plane, walked the camino to madrid, you know, through the city, and and uh 13 days up to Sahagun, a beautiful trail during which, except for two nights, I was the only pilgrim in the albergue, and then two weeks of the Primitivo from Oviedo. But for me it's all, it's kind of, it's all one Camino each time I come.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So, rocco, what keeps you coming back? Because you, you've walked. I think we were talking the other day. There's 80,000 kilometers of Camino in Spain and you've walked quite a few of those. What keeps you coming back? What makes you want to do another one?
Speaker 4:Well, it's interesting. You know people who ask me that question. I ask you know, do you have a good friend? And they say yes. And I said do you ever want to visit them just once in your life? Do you like chocolate, cake and pizza? Can you stop at one piece and never eat them again?
Speaker 4:If you find something in your life that brings you joy, that brings you clarity, that energizes you, the real question is, why aren't you doing it more than once, more than one? And for me, the Camino is like that message at the beginning of every flight In case of decompression, masks will fall from the ceiling. Make sure you put it on yourself before you try to help anyone else. And you know, for the last couple decades, the last couple decades, at least once a year, except for the years of covid um the camino has been that oxygen mask for me that's helped to center me, energize me, help me with um. You know questions with, with pain, with sorrow, uh, with struggles, struggles, and each time providing that injection that allows me to then spend the next year energized and able to help others and walk my way through the world.
Speaker 3:Now let's talk about some practical things for a moment. What's been the pilgrim traffic while you've been walking? I imagine it was a little different when you were walking from Madrid versus the Primitivo.
Speaker 4:And then the moment you connect with the Camino Frances, it's a totally different ballgame. And just to give you a sense of it, two days ago Santiago recorded that over 2,000 pilgrims received a Campostella in Santiago. Now it is Holy Week, and so that boosts the number. But of those 2,000, well over 95% are people who've been walking the Frances or the Portuguese, the two now most popular, and over half of those will have started within the 100-kilometer minimum to receive the Compostela. And so you know, from Sadia to Santiago, from Tui to Santiago, from Lugo to Santiago, all at around the 100-kilometer mark, it just explodes. And so on the Camino Madrid, literally. I was the only pilgrim throughout the entire trip and I had been thinking that I would. Then, once I hit the Frances in Sahagún, I would come into Santiago on the Frances. But I got to Sahagún and there was a line of 30 pilgrims at the albergue.
Speaker 3:Really. Yeah, I'm surprised that far out.
Speaker 4:Right and I said no, no, this is not what I'm looking for. So I immediately got on a train to Oviedo and started the Primitivo in there. You know, you maybe had you maybe saw a half dozen people through the day at some of the, you know, choke points, if you will, the areas where there's a little less infrastructure, so everyone has to gather. Maybe the number went up to a couple dozen, but you know, you knew everyone, you knew all of the faces, you know most of the names and that is not the case. Once, as the people in Asturias say, once the Camino Frances joins the Camino Primitivo, it's a key day because it's the older one, right. And yesterday, coming in from Pedruzo, because so many people are trying to get in for the Pilgrim Mass at noon, and it was just, and, given the rain and all of us with our poncho hoods or rain jacket hoods, it looked like this procession of hunchbacked monks and nuns walking into Santiago, which, on the one hand, was pretty cool.
Speaker 3:We will take a pause here for just a quick moment to hear about today's sponsor, from my dear friend and fellow pilgrim, tricia Rose. Stay tuned, though. More from Rocco right after Hi pilgrims.
Speaker 2:Hola, I'm a pilgrim too. I know how hard it is to go to a new town and not know where to eat. If you are looking for a classic European cafe while in Santiago, you need to visit Aireis Nunes Cafe, rua Vilar, just steps away from the cathedral. Aires Nunes is a local favorite. It is owned by two brothers, native Compostelanos, born and raised in Santiago. Jose Lois and Francisco Xavier Rey de Chico have owned Aires Nunes for 30 years. They've created a comfortable meeting place for locals and pilgrims alike. Years they created a comfortable meeting place for locals and pilgrims alike. This month, diario Compostelano, a local newspaper, named Aires Nunes one of the three most beautiful cafes of the city. They loved its original stone walls and cozy space with medieval airs. Medieval, you ask? Yes, aires Nunes is the name of a medieval poet and musician. His works are emblematic to Santiago's heyday as the center of European culture, when Europe consisted of scattered countries without definite borders. You will find one of his most famous poems prominently displayed in the sunroom of the cafe.
Speaker 2:Let's talk food. Aidas Nunes' artisanal menu sets itself apart from other cafes. At Aida's Nunez pastries are all made in-house from quality, local, fresh ingredients. Their Tarta de Santiago is made the traditional way, using only almonds, sugar and eggs, no additives. It truly can't be missed. As a native Californian, avocado toast is my morning go-to and Idus Nunes has the best one in town. Be sure to try it. They are open very early every day, 8 am, and close at 10 pm, offering breakfast and lunch. Tapas and drinks are available until closing. See you there.
Speaker 3:We've got Rocco Rossi back here. What's the weather been like? You started in Madrid, so I imagine the weather has varied a lot between Madrid and then getting to the Primitivo.
Speaker 4:I've had everything. I mean the first, the first week of the Madrid was rain. Every day, lots of it. And and then, as I crossed over La Fuenfría, which is the highest point of any of the Spanish Caminos it's 1800 meters there was a meter of snow. Wow, were you prepared.
Speaker 4:Well, I'd been told and I'd actually been warned by the locals, and they said well, you know, you might want to take the bus and avoid the mountain there, snow. And I said I'm from Canada and so it was, it was fine. And then I had, you know, two weeks of stunning sunshine, and I was so fortunate on the Primitivo, because you've got, you know, a couple of of more mountainous stages, as you know, the Ruta de Hospitales, and then the climb down to the reservoir in Grandes de Salime, and just absolutely picture-perfect days no wind, incredible sunshine, a mist that formed beneath you so you think of, you see the peaks of the mountains as these islands, you know, in a sea of cotton candy. It was just remarkable.
Speaker 3:Magical. And then you got to the rain, soaked town of Santiago.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Which I think is always more beautiful in the rain.
Speaker 4:Yeah not atypical. And look, there's a reason Galicia is so green. If they didn't have the rain, you wouldn't have all of the green.
Speaker 3:Okay, so now let's move away from the practical side. If you were to say you know what's an observation that you had during these two portions of your walks that, did you gain any insight or any observations that you might want to offer to folks who are getting ready to maybe walk their first Camino, or maybe their fifth? You know what has this been like? Any new learnings? Yeah, there's some.
Speaker 4:It's interesting, maybe more reinforcement of some things. There was a spectacular Spanish poet by the name of Antonio Machado and he had a very famous poem that you often see on on walls and in graffiti as you're walking the Camino, you know. He famously said you know, walker Pilgrim, there is no Camino. You make it in the walking. And one of the other passages in that famous poem says your footsteps and nothing else. That's what the Camino is.
Speaker 4:And while I understand the sentiment and I'm moved by the beauty of his words, this time in particular really reinforced the notion that even in those times on the Madrid, when I was the only pilgrim, it's still the other people that you encounter. Whether it's a local, it's someone who gives you a sincere buen camino, who offers you water, who sees you by yourself and says, no, there's a town a couple of kilometers away. Or you know, my sister-in-law runs an albergue in such and such town and just go out of their way to help you. Or you know your Camino family it's, or you know your Camino family it's, all of it is enriched, it's. Yes, there are the solitary moments, but they're. They're put in relief, they're deepened by those encounters and so the openness, even if you're in a group, because sometimes when you're in a group, there's a natural tendency that that forms a barrier with everyone who's outside the group, and I would stress, really going out of your way to ensure that you don't close yourself off, because there's just another dimension of richness to be had.
Speaker 3:Well said of richness to be had, well said. Well, now you had the opportunity of seeing Johnny and Bill Bennett and Jennifer Clough, because you were the emcee for the premiere of the Way my Way in Toronto. So what's a takeaway from that? How did you feel about doing that?
Speaker 4:Well, I was pissed off that they went to Ottawa first because I wanted a Canadian premiere. But you know, in all seriousness, it was a total fanboy moment. I love the, I love the book and the movie was spectacular.
Speaker 1:But I have to say you know, as you well know.
Speaker 4:Johnny Walker Santiago is a hero of mine, as he is a hero of so many people, particularly English-language speaking pilgrims from around the world, because his guides, his insights have really inspired me for so many years. And to get to meet him and talk a little and you know, I'm also meeting him again today- I'm so jealous.
Speaker 4:And so just, it would have been perfect if you were still here as well. The three of us could. But that was fantastic. And to any who've not seen the movie yet, by all means, if it comes to your town, look for it, well worth seeing. And if it's not there, then buy Bill's book, because it's a ton of fun.
Speaker 3:Yeah, one of the best books about the Camino. I'm so glad to see it in the form of a movie now. And wow, johnny and Jennifer and Bill were here, you know, in Seattle. They did two showings in Seattle and one in Tacoma, and it was a joy. It was a joy to be able to see them. So I wanted to end this with maybe some big news that you and I can share, and that is we are thinking of leading a Camino walk for some folks in 2026. So what would you have to say to everyone who is hearing this for the first time? What about co-leading this walk?
Speaker 4:Look, number one, I'm excited to be doing anything with you because you are and just bring so much light and love to everything you do. So that's that's pleasure, number one.
Speaker 3:Right back at you.
Speaker 4:Number two. You know, and I'm a huge believer, that you have to put the me in Camino because everybody walks their own, and so I've always been a little askance at the sort of group trips, because I'm thinking, you know, how do you ensure that everyone gets their own Camino within that? And so we want to do a little research, taking advantage of the audience here, to get your thoughts about what would constitute a great trip. You know what time of year looks like. That would be ideal. Are there particular Caminos, sections of Caminos that you particularly want to? Uh, want to see how big a group um is, is what you're interested in. How much support um are you? Are you really looking for Um? Because you know we want to come up with the Goldilocks solution Not too much, not too little, just right. And so in the show notes, you know there's a special email address and please send us your thoughts and we're going to customize something that's going to be fantastic and draw on the experience the two of us have had to help you have your best Camino.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm so excited about this opportunity and just so curious to see who's going to sign up and walk along with us. It's going to be so much fun. You know, my first Camino was with a group and you know I had the best of both worlds, because I think those leaders were very cognizant of making sure that we had our own individual Camino as well as this immediate family right, and so I think there can be a lot of benefits to it. But we are very curious to hear who's possibly interested. What are you looking for? And then we're going to build it around that. So we're just super excited to do that. So the email will be in the show notes or, if you are watching this from Facebook, it'll be on the Facebook post, and so, yeah, just let us know and we will probably send out some surveys based on the number of people that respond to that. And if you email us to that special email, you'll be one of the first people to know when registration opens up for the 2026 walk. So, looking forward to that.
Speaker 3:Rocco, I wish I was in Santiago with you right now. You are on your way to breakfast. I'm on my way to bed in Tacoma, I hope. Where are you heading for breakfast?
Speaker 4:I think we're going to go into town and the Parador has this special pilgrim price buffet. It's 15 euros, which is a little steeper than the typical café con leche and tostada. It's an incredible spread in a beautiful building that originally was a refuge, built as a refuge for pilgrims. So we're going to put a little pilgrim into Peridot today.
Speaker 3:Love it. Yeah, that's a beautiful buffet, so wonderful. Well, thank you for talking. I'm so happy for you to have completed another Camino and I can't wait to see you. I hope everyone that you will sign up and walk with us in 2026. And you know what, more than anything, I think Rocco would probably agree with me we just want you to walk. So, whether it's with us, whether it's on your own, whether it's with another group, I just want the whole world to walk. So please make your plans to walk soon and sending you so much love, rocco, and we'll talk soon.
Speaker 4:Right back at you. Buen camino en la vida everyone.
Speaker 3:Well, that's a wrap. Thank you to Rocco Tricia and our sponsor today, iris Nunes, and, most importantly, a big thank you to you, dear listening pilgrims. It is through the holding of space listening to our fellow pilgrims' stories and through sharing our own stories with fellow pilgrims that we connect, heal, grow, inspire and get inspired ourselves. Thanks for joining us today. We'll see you next time.
Speaker 1:Utreya Suseya. En la vida ya están aquí Las cosas que necesito En la vida. Ya están aquí. I am free, free as a bird now With my feathered wings. I am free, free as a bird now, with my feathered wings. Thank you.