110 - Melodies of the Soul: A Singer's Journey Along the Camino de Santiago with Kristina Jacobsen

Embark on a melodic sojourn with the illustrious Dr. Kristina Jacobsen, as she leads us down the lyrical path of self-discovery that intertwines with the historic trails of the Camino de Santiago. Our guest, an accomplished singer, songwriter, and associate professor at the University of New Mexico, unveils the harmony between creativity and walking, revealing how her initial reluctance transformed into a profound pilgrimage of the soul. Your ears will be graced with snippets of Kristina's Camino-inspired tunes, offering a taste of the magic that occurs when music and mile markers merge.

From the academic halls of Massachusetts to the heartstrings of the Southwest, Kristina shares her story with us, touching on her collaborations with the Navajo Nation and the evolution of her songwriting workshops. The journey that brought her to create the singer and songwriter retreat on the Camino will inspire the artist within. As we traverse this episode, you'll discover the alchemy that transpires when the pace slows to three miles an hour, and each step, each note, becomes an anthem of personal growth.

In the closing chords of our session, Kristina invites creatives of all stripes to join her in an upcoming Camino retreat—a sanctuary designed for reconnecting with one's artistry. With only ten spots available, this intimate retreat beckons musicians, writers, poets, and anyone yearning to stir their creativity amongst the camaraderie of fellow pilgrims. Allow your spirit to be moved by the tales of community, collaboration, and the euphonious echoes of new songs birthed along the Camino's sacred route.

Songs performed on this episode:

Desert in the Storm 
Melissa Santangelo (co-writer / backing vocals)
Nhu-Mai Nguyen (co-writer / lead vocals, instrumentals)

I am a Pilgrim
Kristina Jacobsen, 2022

Life at 3 miles an hour
Kristina Jacobsen and John Parish, copyright 2022


Connect with Kristina:

Songs of Santiago - Contemplative Songwriting Retreat in Northern Spain
October 7-20, 2024

https://www.singmebackhomesongwriting.com/santiago

Kristina's Websites:

https://unm.academia.edu/KristinaJacobsen (scholarship)

                 
http://www.kristinajacobsenmusic.com/ (music)

               
 http://www.kristina-jacobsen.com/ (public engagement)

Connect with Leigh:

Camino News Update - Every Wednesday!
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9jRyUVnjI4WJMbM7rEbXW9ycGuQwm8Ae&si=vKPxgrYLQfyC_m4H

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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6VN9ze3z61n6tRLtDXWuQw

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The Camino Cafe's intro and outro song with thanks to fellow Pilgrim, Jackson Maloney. Original Song - "Finnis Terre" - written and performed by Jackson Maloney - Singer, Musician, and Songwriter. Connect with Jackson: https://open.spotify.com/artist/3fdQsSqq9pDSwKcWlnBHKR

Transcript

Leigh Brennan: 0:12

Welcome to the Camino Cafe podcast.

Leigh Brennan: 0:14

I'm Leigh Brennan and your host. Today's special guest is Dr Kristina Jacobsen. She is a professional singer and songwriter and an associate professor of the departments of music and anthropology at the University of New Mexico. Not only is she a pilgrim, but she is also leading singer and songwriting retreats, combined with Walking the Camino. This interview includes a few at-home recorded songs to give you a preview of just a few Camino-inspired Kristina's songs, as well as a song written and performed by two participants from the most recent Camino singer songwriter workshop. During the interview itself, I play a few clips from three featured songs Life at Three Miles an Hour, desert in the Storm and I Am a Pilgrim. The full versions of all three are played in their entirety following the interview. Links to Kristina's website are in the show notes in case you want to check out her music and the next Camino retreat she's leading this October of 2024. Before we jump into the chat with Kristina, let's hear a 30-second clip of her song Life at Three Miles an Hour.

Leigh Brennan: 1:44

Kristina, welcome to the Camino Cafe podcast. I'm thrilled to have you finally on. Thank you for being so patient with my schedule. I have been so excited to talk to you, since Bill Arts told me all about the songwriting workshop that he attended with you at the American Pilgrims on the Camino gathering last year. So let's start there. You did a songwriting workshop there.

Kristina Jacobsen: 2:07

Yeah, hi everyone, thank you so much for having me on the show. It's wonderful to be here. Yeah, I attended my first annual gathering of pilgrims last spring in Lake Tahoe and I was asked to teach a songwriting workshop, and so I had a number of pilgrims show up and I paired them in groups of two and gave them a prompt and they wrote some really beautiful songs, including Bill. So it was a pretty life-giving thing to get to do, and so people came with little fragments and pieces of poems and things that they wanted to put to sound. So, yeah, it was a really, really cool moment to get to facilitate that for so many pilgrims last year. Yeah well.

Leigh Brennan: 2:51

I know Bill was just really complimenting everything you did and he's like you have got to speak to Christina, she must be on the podcast. So he absolutely adored the session you led and, of course, everyone loved it, so much so that you're coming back to American Pilgrims on the Camino gathering, which will be in San Antonio here in March. What will be the title of your workshop there?

Kristina Jacobsen: 3:11

Yeah, I'm doing another songwriting workshop, so very similar to the one that I did last year, except this is a double header, so it's going to be twice as long, so we'll have more time to kind of go into some of the nuts and bolts of songwriting and hopefully finish a song fingers crossed. So that's the intention. And then I'm also playing a show with my duo so we go by the name Heart Strings and my bandmate Der Obenchain, who's an Appalachian fiddler and phenomenal musician and harmony singer, and so on Thursday night at the annual gathering, we're going to be the featured performers on that very first night. So we'll be playing songs. Yeah, we'll be playing songs from the Camino, songs that I wrote there and sort of telling, telling a story of Camino songs in a live performance.

Leigh Brennan: 3:56

Oh, I'm super excited to see that. That's going to be fantastic. Well, let's back up a little bit and introduce you a little more properly to everyone. You are a professor at the University of New Mexico. Can give us just a really brief bio of what led you to the point of where you are right now in your career?

Kristina Jacobsen: 4:12

Sure.

Kristina Jacobsen: 4:13

So I'm an associate professor of songwriting and anthropology at the University of New Mexico and I've taught here for about 10 years and I run the songwriting program at the University of New Mexico.

Kristina Jacobsen: 4:26

I'm an anthropologist and I'm a singer, songwriter, and so I I came into the Academy, sort of doing both of those things, and then I'm very, very I'm very lucky to be in a position where I get to sort of teach my two deepest passions, so learning how to do ethnographic fieldwork and also how to how to write songs and how to guide creative process for students and community members here. Originally I came out to the Southwest to live and work on the Navajo Nation and learn the Navajo language, and that's what. That's what brought me out here. And then, long story short, I ended up doing a dissertation about Dine or Navajo country western bands and I was playing the lap steel guitar and touring with them all around Navajo Nation and that became my dissertation and then my first book. So my ties to the Southwest are very linked to Dine communities and to the Navajo Nation in my capacity as a non native guest living out here.

Leigh Brennan: 5:27

Wow, so where were you born originally?

Kristina Jacobsen: 5:29

I was born in western Massachusetts. I was born in the Berkshires, in a little town called Great Barrington.

Leigh Brennan: 5:35

Okay, all right, yeah. May across out to the West as a teenager, yeah. Wow, fascinating. So let's get to. How did the Camino come into your life? You did your first walk in 2022. Is that right, yeah?

Kristina Jacobsen: 5:50

I did my first. So really my partner was has always wanted to walk the Camino. It was on his bucket list and so he worked, walked the first part by himself, started in St Jean and then I joined him in Burgos. So essentially he invited me to join him on his Camino. And you know, I felt pretty reticent and I felt a little grouchy about it and you know I really didn't know how I felt about it. And then I started watching.

Leigh Brennan: 6:18

Yeah, what made you grouchy about it?

Kristina Jacobsen: 6:20

Oh, I think all the unknowns, right, like all the different anxieties that can sort of come to us when we're doing something that's out of our comfort zone, you know. And so the first week I was a pretty grouchy walker and then I started leaning into it and kind of breathing and slowing down. I'd been on tour before that, so I had been, I'd had a pretty frenetic schedule, so it was partly just like realigning myself and slowing down and getting into the rhythm and the pace of the walking and letting that be my entire world, right For the time that I was walking. And so by about week three I hit my sweet spot in the sense of whoa, okay, this is amazing.

Kristina Jacobsen: 7:06

And I started writing a lot of songs and I had my little I don't know if you can see it behind me, but I had my little orange ukulele strapped over my backpacks because it's really lightweight it weighs about half a pound and so I would put it on my front side with my pack on the back and I would walk and write songs and yeah, so it was really generative as an artist. And then we became what we called in-betweeners. So we learned that we didn't love the large albergues and instead, you know, we sort of chose the places in between and formed our own really beautiful community of folks that were also doing the same thing, so that sort of became our tribe while we were on the Camino and yeah, so you know.

Leigh Brennan: 7:47

So your partner says you know, I've been wanting to do this my whole life. Why don't you meet me part way? And at that point, had you, did you know anything about the Camino other than what they had shared?

Kristina Jacobsen: 7:57

Yeah, I done, we'd started, we did do training before we went and we kind of. But I think you know it's interesting, like I was invited as a guest on his Camino, right, and it was, and so he wanted to walk part of it on his own, which I think was really, really important, and so it's like it. It took a while for it to become my own right and this had this whole idea that everyone walks their own Camino, but like, oh, what does that look like? Like it's not going to look like it does for him or for anyone else on it. So like leaning into that I'm a huge lover of food, for example. So like leaning into the foods on the Camino and then leaning into it as an artist, and then leaning into it as an anthropologist and as an ethnographer, like in Galicia in particular, like all of these women run farms and and just like the economics of the region, and it's really really amazing, yeah, so, so all of that kind of, I guess, went into becoming what became my, my own, my own Camino.

Leigh Brennan: 8:58

I'm fascinated about this process this transformation that occurred in that three weeks where you go from grouchy walker, what you just described, what? What do you think happened? What caused this?

: 9:15

transformation during those three weeks.

Kristina Jacobsen: 9:18

Well, you know I'm I'm co-teaching a songwriting class this semester with this amazing social worker who does a lot of trauma-informed work, and one of the things that they talk about is the importance of right-left, right-left and sort of our body moving through time and space as a regulating mechanism that brings us back right to our center, to our self, to our deepest intentions and values.

Kristina Jacobsen: 9:43

So I think that that the walking itself did a lot of that work, and you and I were talking earlier. You know I'm trained as a mindfulness teacher and a lot of that is about regulation with breath, right. And of course there's a technique called mindful walking, right. So sort of how do you walk and stay present and walk with intention and what does that do for our nervous system? What does it do to help us re-regulate what we're doing when we feel dis-regulated? So I would say part of it is that I arrived feeling pretty dis-regulated. You know I'd been moving very quickly and had a lot of responsibility and and pressures on me before that, and so then to sort of be able to release that slowly through the walking and then learn that my only job was to walk was pretty miraculous right to not have any other jobs.

Leigh Brennan: 10:33

But just again, had you ever done anything like this? Where it was? You know a long hike of any sort like this? Because you do have a really busy schedule when we were talking about you know all the concerts you do, your busy teaching schedule, the workshops you do taking kids, you know the students abroad. You are a busy person. So, was this one of the first times where you really just slowed down as an adult?

Kristina Jacobsen: 10:57

Absolutely in terms of yes, certainly the longest number of days that I had walked I think before that I'd probably done like day hikes was probably the longest that I'd done. Yeah, so it was a completely new thing in that way. Yeah, I think that I had to do it to understand the value of it right, to understand that, like so many things, right, that it's worth, it's deeply worth our time Do you recall, at the moment where you felt this profoundness of something happening.

Kristina Jacobsen: 11:31

Yeah, I mean, I remember the exact moment after the the cruz de ferro, descending down you know that pretty steep, sometimes slick mountain area after Manjarín when you're going into Molina Seca, but before, and I remember sort of looking down in that really green, beautiful verdant area that feels like you know, this beautiful green wilderness, specifically right after Ella Fevo I guess it was.

Kristina Jacobsen: 12:04

But I remember the moment that sort of the seed or the spark was born, not only of realizing its value but thinking like, oh, what would it look like to take a small group of songwriters on this journey? And oh, like where would we stay? And like you know, sort of like starting to like catalog in my own brain, like the places where I felt the most welcome and the places I would want to bring people back to, or like, oh, you know, let's see, like out of Santa Catalina, like there's a beautiful labyrinth where you can walk and do like mindful walking or right, sort of seeing it through the lens, I guess, of both a teacher and an artist. So I remember when that moment started.

Kristina Jacobsen: 12:54

Yeah, and it had a lot to do with sort of nature and the surroundings that I was in, I think especially once we got into the Biertzo I was hooked right like wine country, and leaving the meseta and then opening up into this expanse of green was like, oh so like giving yeah.

Leigh Brennan: 13:14

Wow, did you? Then you started writing songs. Then, at that point, yeah, I had been.

Kristina Jacobsen: 13:20

I had been working on one before that Um and with which is a song called three miles an hour, that sort of catalogs different towns that we were going through. But I was sort of I was doing it because I had told myself I had to do it. You know like, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll write songs you know like, but the truth is productive.

Kristina Jacobsen: 13:42

Yeah, there was definitely an element of that, but that is sort of the moment when it turned, I guess it turned away from being work and turned to being like, oh, like how. What an incredible thing that I get to write songs inspired by this place and inspired by our, by our experiences.

Leigh Brennan: 13:59

Yeah, let's play a little bit of three miles so everyone can hear it, and then we'll come back and talk about what inspired it. Beautiful, okay. So do you remember where you were when you began writing the words or the melody, the music to that particular song?

Kristina Jacobsen: 14:53

So three miles an hour. Is is a co right with with my partner, john parish, and I asked him to do sort of like a free right of his sense impressions of the Camino so far and asked for permission to sort of pull from it. And then I combined those with mine and I remember that a lot of that I wrote while we were literally walking. So it's it's. You know I I joke that all the songs I wrote on the Camino are all the exact same tempo because I was walking. They're all. They're all walking tempo right.

Leigh Brennan: 15:26

That would be good for us to listen to as pilgrims.

Kristina Jacobsen: 15:31

And so, yeah, I remember that we were walking side by side and he would sort of volley ideas to me and I had my voice memo app going and also what's app, which is like a phenomenal tool for songwriting on many levels, and so, yeah, and having the stick in one hand and kind of like trying to figure this out, but really the idea was like so originally the song was called for K or four kilometers an hour because we were, of course, measuring our distance in kilometers when we were in Spain, but then for us audience, I've switched it when I perform it here to three miles an hour, and the idea was just like you know what? What work does that do for us to just slow our entire lives down to literally living our lives at three miles an hour? And what other benefits, what other things can we show up for? What other things can show up for us and what things might we see more clearly? Right, I am here in Albuquerque. I don't drive a vehicle, I have a Vespa, and it's a similar thing in the sense that I see and smell so much more of my city and of the humanity around me and my senses are exposed and when I'm very vulnerable right on the road for for similar reasons and so. But I think something about the consistency of just slowing ourselves down to that pace of three miles an hour and this is a really beautiful lesson for me.

Kristina Jacobsen: 16:59

And in slowing down and paying attention in a very different kind of way, I remember and I imagine this is an experience for many pilgrims like the first time, after doing that for a number of weeks, that you get in a car and then it just feels like so violent, right, like so so fast, like whoa, this is way too fast. Right, because we've become Like we we've sort of lost the ways that we naturalize that. And then we have to kind of, you know, remember that it's this thing that we've done before. But but at that moment, you know, you really notice that transition and it feels. It feels kind of violent and feels really fast.

Leigh Brennan: 17:38

Yeah, so you know, he's a partner, is also a musician.

Kristina Jacobsen: 17:41

No, he's a visual artist and he was doing a series of watercolor sketches while we were, while we were walking, that that he shared in different places. But yeah, no, so he'll feed me sort of lyrics and then I'll take the words when we're going to go and add the music and sort of do to all of those parts. But the yeah, the lyric on life at three miles an hour. Life at three miles an hour. Sit under a tree in a July shower sips and mountain water from a stone fountain, stray off track for a late lunch and the tea just can we make it to El Ganso by?

: 18:20

some day living life at three miles an hour.

Kristina Jacobsen: 18:27

Sort of the just yeah love it.

Leigh Brennan: 18:29

I should say your songs are available on Spotify. I know your newest album is on. There is this particular song on Spotify as well.

Kristina Jacobsen: 18:36

These ones I have not released. I have not formally released them yet, so so no, they're not my my latest album. All of my albums are in Spotify. My latest was the one I released in Sardinia in 2021.

Leigh Brennan: 18:49

Okay.

Kristina Jacobsen: 18:49

Yeah, yeah, but but hopefully, hopefully at a future moment.

Leigh Brennan: 18:53

Wonderful. I think a lot of pilgrims can definitely feel like their walk definitely resonates with that song let's talk a little bit about. So you finished the Camino and you arrive in Santiago. You were somewhat of a reluctant pilgrim there in the beginning and this transformation happens literally while you're walking. You're feeling some transformation. How did it feel to actually enter the Plaza at the cathedral? What went through your mind? What went through your heart?

Kristina Jacobsen: 19:25

I remember being surprised at how triumphant I felt. It was like whoa, this is, you know, it felt like a real arrival. It felt like like I'd done something hard and I had persevered, and not just physically, you know, sort of all of the things that we encounter when we're walking and the day in and the day out of it. So I remember feeling, yeah, a lot of a lot of joy, shared joy. You know, at that point I was with my partner and our close friend, heinrich from Denmark, and so we arrived together. The music, of course, helped a lot. Having the bagpipes, I mean like what a beautiful way, what a very beautiful specific way to mark that space and that arrival, right like these, like iconic bagpipes that so many pilgrims associate with, right arriving through the passage way, and all of that, yeah, so it felt really joyous.

Leigh Brennan: 20:24

And then what about your return? How did it feel once you were home, and what kinds of changes occurred?

Kristina Jacobsen: 20:36

Yeah, the return was a real challenge, the sort of all the things sort of re re, integrating into our faster lives and trying to make peace with that, trying to integrate the experiences from the Camino in the Camino into our everyday lives we became.

Kristina Jacobsen: 20:55

One of the things we did is we became very, very active in our local American Pilgrims chapter here in Albuquerque and and they have a shout out to two American pilgrims in our, in our state they have these epic potlucks with like the most amazing food and the most amazing wines and that really helped us because it was like we have this like longing and this nostalgia for the Camino and so to join other folks that also had done it and could share and resonate with a lot of that experience and we would just get together so that that was really, really helpful just to have folks that that got that right and with whom the experience could resonate. And we started doing a lot more walking. We've led, we've led some walks here for a local chapter in our part of the city and so you know, this whole idea of walking and socializing or building community and connecting with folks through walking has sort of become a big part of my vocabulary now and yeah, and I really really love that.

Leigh Brennan: 21:57

Wow. And then that led to the idea of offering a songwriting retreat walk on the Camino, which you held, the first one this past fall. So yeah how did that? You were thinking about it, obviously, as you were finishing up your walk, but then you got home, so how did it get to the point where you actually ended up with a group here in Spain?

Kristina Jacobsen: 22:20

Yeah, man, um, yeah, we, so it's called songs of Santiago contemplative songwriting retreat, and, and so we launched the first one in October and, yeah, I, I just felt like that it could be a really, really powerful way to make art and build community at the same time.

Kristina Jacobsen: 22:46

Right, doing it with others, that the retreats that I facilitate are usually built on this premise of cowriting. So, rather than writing on your own, you're always writing with someone else, but it's a different person every day, and so this sort of it's like you're building your community one person at a time, because in order to write a song in a single day, you have to share a lot of story and you have to go pretty deep right to sort of arrive there eight hours later, which is a feat, and it is amazing when people do it, and so you're sort of building that level of depth and connection one person at a time. Um, I mean, you know, I teach mindfulness, I love exercising and love walking, and I'm a singer, songwriter, and I'm also a lover of rural, beautiful places, and so it felt like this would be a way to bring all of these things together and bring some of my own specific skill sets together and then to hold space for others that that might want to, to have that experience and have a little bit of time guidance along the way and to sort of facilitate I think of it as facilitating creative process in the community setting. And so we had 10 songwriters on on our first one and we stayed in group dormitories most nights and we had communal meals and we offered we did a morning circle of mindfulness meditation before we started walking and then we offered a prompt and then people were paired and then sort of started their inspiration. In some cases they wrote it in one day and some cases they wrote it in two days, depending on the pacing and our other responsibilities and how much walking we had to do. And yeah, we did a.

Kristina Jacobsen: 24:34

It produced some really, really amazing songs and we had people from France, with people from across the United States and and we did a final concert in the a Franca del Bierto. So we started in Astorga and we ended in Travadello at the amazing Casa Susi, and then we did our concert in the a Franca del Bierto, in this 15th century tower and this old winery, and it was incredibly atmospheric and really, really beautiful, and so we literally wrote these songs or perform these songs that had been written, in some cases like the day before, right so like first debuts, hot off the press, never performed. So you can imagine like what courage and hutzpah that takes to sort of just be like All right, here it is world, here's the song and um yeah, I want to ask you so the people that signed up, were they professional songwriters, amateur songwriters, a mixture?

Kristina Jacobsen: 25:36

Yeah, it's a, it's a massive mix. And so I, you know, I always like to say, like these, the the retreats that I that I lead so I lead one in Saturday in Italy and then I do this one I'm like, I mean, they are open to a pretty broad swath of folks. So they're open to writers, they're open to musicians, they're open to poets, they're open to creative scholars and they're open to songwriters. So that was basically the mix that we got is into a really, really broad variety of levels, and then we provide sort of just enough tools and then so the art form, a lot of it is in the pairing, right.

Kristina Jacobsen: 26:13

So if I know you're a poet but you don't play an instrument, and I know a fabulous guitarist who maybe isn't as comfortable with the lyric part of things, you know all pair those two people together so that their two skill sets can sort of help them to arrive at a song, and so a lot of it is sort of knowing enough about folks that we can pair them in ways that they can. And then, and then, once you get sort of invincible in an amazing way, you're like I want this, you know, and then the next one becomes a lot easier, right? Because you're like oh no, but I already did it, like I know how to do this thing, yeah, so what they perform.

Leigh Brennan: 26:50

Yeah, well, let's go through what a typical day was like. So you woke up, you did the mindfulness, you had breakfast, they set out, they walk, they were writing as they were paired up and then, when you arrived where you were staying, did they perform that day or were all the performances say for?

Kristina Jacobsen: 27:07

Yeah, it's called like a song circle. So the basically the daily schedule is we would do the morning circle. We would walk, we would arrive, get situated, sort of do all the things that pilgrims need to do in your new place, right laundry, naps, etc. And then each evening around 6pm we would do a song circle. And that was just for the group and that was basically what have you written today, and then offering feedback on the song.

Kristina Jacobsen: 27:33

So how did it hit? You had it at land with you and so we would do that as a group and then and then we would share dinner together and then and then do some version of that the next day. So so the idea is that it's pretty intimate and like sometimes if we had an albergue host that we knew well, we would invite them to listen in on the song circle because they may not be able to make it to the final concert. Otherwise, it was just for the participants, because it is so raw and so vulnerable, right to have a song that's just been written. But then we did, and then we, and then the final concert is when we opened it up to everybody, and that was like come and hear these songs, and so that's on the second to last day is the final concert.

Leigh Brennan: 28:12

Yeah, so how far were you guys walking each day?

Kristina Jacobsen: 28:15

It was a really it's. We do a modified Camino so that we have time to write, so typically I was a it's. Between eight and 13 kilometers was sort of our range. So so yeah, much less than you would typically be doing.

Leigh Brennan: 28:35

Okay well. I think you would have to write, because I was just thinking to myself, boy, if I added in also writing a song, and yeah, so that makes total sense. Yeah, well, let's cut to a song. And some of your participants to participants wrote a song called Desert in the storm. Can you tell us a little about those participants and kind of introduce the song, and we'll let everyone hear a sample of the type of song that was written while you were on this?

Kristina Jacobsen: 29:00

Yeah, absolutely so. At the final concert, this is one of the songs that was performed in the beautiful tower, and so this is a song by new my and Melissa, and they were paired up as co writers for a day and this is the song that they ended up writing, and there were so many beautiful songs I mean, it's, it's hard over 30 songs were written right over the course of this retreat, so many beautiful ones, and this one felt like especially the chorus and the way it opens up in the melody that it that it's sort of sort of embodied a lot of the, the beauty that we experienced as a group and in our own group experience of walking, of walking along along the path of the Camino and I know there's information about them in the show notes so you can listen to the song and other places and learn more about their work.

Leigh Brennan: 29:50

But they, yeah, really, really fantastic musicians and songwriters and yeah, let's listen to a little bit of that desert in the storm.

: 30:14

Is it my soul, deserving beaten path of history, to walk with those who came before, one step and another walk with me to the end and I was like, wow, I mean, that's the kind of quality songs that your group was putting out.

Leigh Brennan: 30:41

at the end of this, something else. I know you obviously anticipated that this was a good idea. You knew from walking yourself.

Kristina Jacobsen: 30:51

But what kinds of things happen that maybe you didn't expect, I think. Well, lots of serendipities on the Camino, like, for example, people would be co writing. I was co writing, so one of the as the retreat facilitator, I also write most days, and we were writing with someone one day and we were in the middle of coming up with with a lyric for the chorus and then there were these two people walking behind us and someone shouts out and they're like what about this line? And it was so cool and we actually it was actually a really great line, because we were stuck on like a certain like trying to find the right rhyme, and so this complete random stranger gave us the song line that ended up working really well. So we got his name down and we gave him song credit. You know, as good songwriters you always want to credit everyone's ideas, and so.

Kristina Jacobsen: 31:46

But that happened in a couple different spaces. I saw some other folks, other pairs, that were at actually in the ganzo and they were hanging out there and they were in that cafe area Right right by Bar Cowboy, and so also there there were a couple of different instances where people that were sort of at their own table would walk up and be like, hey, I have a great song lyric for you, or hey, you know like how about this verse? You're not so spontaneous, but what was so beautiful was to see all these people so invested in the creative process and in songwriting, like so invested that they wanted to like be a part of it. You know, and had like strong ideas and opinions about the way the song should go, and so that was what should go and all this stuff. So that was totally yeah, it was totally unexpected and kind of amazing, like oh, that's what happens when you write a song and on the Camino it becomes a communal, shared experience, right, yeah. And so we had a lot of low rights, but in the broadest sense, not just two people, maybe four or five, whole community.

Kristina Jacobsen: 32:53

Another thing that was unexpected and really just very special about the texture of the community that was formed in this past year is that we had one of our participants was a songwriter and musician who wrote the well known song, um yeah, jean Claude Benazze. And so Jean Claude taught all the harmonies and everything to the entire group and we learned it, and so every time we wanted to thank someone, like an albergue host or someone that had shown us love and hospitality, we would gather and sing that song for them, and we also did that song in the final concert. So it was so amazing to perform it with the person that had written it Um, you know, diet, like leading us on all the parts and and what, what a beautiful, beautiful song. The verses are an oxytan, which is a language that he wrote, and so, yeah, yeah, that was completely unexpected and amazing. So it sort of became like our anthem, like our theme song, you know, for the, for the entire trip.

Leigh Brennan: 34:03

Wow, I love that, I love you. Sometimes people will say, oh, you know, I don't want to go with a group, or that changes the dynamic. But yes, what you're talking about is that really. You guys had this ready made family, but there were still other programs participating. There was involvement beyond your group. It was truly a communal community in so many different ways.

Kristina Jacobsen: 34:26

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Leigh Brennan: 34:29

Absolutely. What about for you personally as the facilitator? You know now, this was your second communal. Yes, you still walk.

Kristina Jacobsen: 34:39

Yeah.

Leigh Brennan: 34:40

What did you learn about yourself that was different, maybe, than that first walk you did with your partner.

Kristina Jacobsen: 34:46

Yeah Well, returning felt really good. Returning was like, it was like returning to like this old friend, and I was like, ah, so it felt a, it felt amazing to return and be. It felt amazing to bring others and and a number of folks about half the group had had not walked a coming walk, and so, you know, to sort of get to be part of watching their wonder and their beginner's mind right as they sort of encounter all of these spontaneous, random, magical things about the coming, some of which we can plan and many of which we cannot at all. Right, which is part of part of that magic. And you know, I left with a sense of what a privilege it was to get to hold the space for all of the participants and the folks that came.

Kristina Jacobsen: 35:43

And also there's this thing about co writing and songwriting. When you're writing with others, I always say it's, it's bigger, it's greater than the sum of its parts. You know, like you, the song that I write on my own I could never write the same song with someone else, like it's, by definition, completely different when someone else. And so there is a magic in starting a day with no song and then ending a day with a brand new song and you're like how did that happen? Like, oh my gosh, you know, I call them song babies.

Kristina Jacobsen: 36:13

I'm like there's a new song baby that's been born into the world right and like that, witnessing that and also doing it myself Every time there's still like this, this magic, what, and watching it be born is very energizing and joy giving and sort of like. It renews me and my sense of faith and connection to the world and to myself and to other human beings. Yeah, so it's like for me, it's like a kind of like a rebirth. Each time I get to lead a retreat that does this kind of work.

Leigh Brennan: 36:52

Wow, why can't even imagine it was a pilgrim. I feel like such a sense of accomplishment just walking that day. What a rich layer this would add to end the day not only with feeling like, oh, I won the day you know I finished.

Leigh Brennan: 37:12

Not all these people, and you know all the wonderful magical things that happen normally on the Camino, but also adding to that that I have written a song, that I have been a community, at least with one other person working on the song that must. How does that feel as a as a songwriter?

Kristina Jacobsen: 37:27

I mean, for me personally, it feels deeply connective. You know, I I always say, like the people that I've written songs with, I have a bond, like typically have a bond for life. I cannot see them for 10 years and we sort of pick up exactly where we left off. It's a very, very strong and many of them I've, you know, gone on to tour with and record with and sort of do many other forms of collaboration with, playing bands, with yeah, it's a really.

Kristina Jacobsen: 37:54

There's a wonderful Swedish songwriter that refers to co-writing. Her name is Annika failing. She refers to to co-writing as breaking isolation. It's this idea that we're forced out of our comfort zone and to deeply connect with someone else and sometimes, until we do that, we don't even necessarily know how lonely we are right, or we don't fully understand our own senses of isolation until we have experienced that level of connection again, right, and then it's like oh, oh.

Kristina Jacobsen: 38:23

And I think the other part, I would add, and one of the reasons I personally, as an artist, love co-writing and this method of songwriting so much, is that it's one of one of the main places in my own life where I feel truly seen by someone else right, seen and heard showing up just as I am, and I don't feel like I'll speak for my own life experience.

Kristina Jacobsen: 38:46

I don't feel like there are necessarily many places in our lives where we get to do that or have that, and so to me those are sort of sacred right. Like you find those things and it's like, oh okay, I will do anything I can to create it for myself and I'll do anything I can to sort of create that space for others to experience that. Because I think that that ripples out into all aspects of our life, right when we come back from the world and our art making and how we think about what it means to live a creative life and creative process. Right, it's not just about writing a song. It's about the beautiful cake you decorated or the way you set the table, or you know the way that you cut your flowers or like all of those things I think are part of this bundle, right. So it's it's about reconnecting to that and giving it time and space.

Leigh Brennan: 39:39

And Christian. Is that one of the things that calls us back? Is that being seen, that being heard, that being able to see and hear unique experience that I haven't experienced as an adult, really in many other places other than being on the same page.

Kristina Jacobsen: 39:57

Oh, that's so cool.

Kristina Jacobsen: 39:58

Yeah, I mean, I do think I would say for my, for myself, certainly yes, and I would also say you know, the Camino cultivates sort of a certain subculture that allows for the slowing down of time and space and sort of allowing it to be and feel more expansive, and like what a beautiful, sacred thing.

Kristina Jacobsen: 40:21

That is right, and so I think you're absolutely right. Yeah, thanks for articulating that. It's like you find that of course you're going to go back to it and like these are these, these are these precious things, and you find them and and they're rare. And also, you know, like the work you're doing in your podcast, like the cultivating that for others and giving back to others and sort of the spirit of reciprocity, that the whole in genders is so sort of baked into its ethos, its deepest ethos, and that is a very beautiful thing. So this idea of that that we each have value, right and use and we have skills that we can offer and be seen in that way to whatever that skill set might be in the Camino you know yeah and we all have a story.

Kristina Jacobsen: 41:14

And like what a beautiful thing to get to share that story and have it be witnessed, right, whether that's a poem or a song, or walking alongside someone for a full day and just feeling fully heard, without judgment and having you know, feeling like you're, you're really being listened to.

Leigh Brennan: 41:32

Yeah, so you're doing another another coming to walk with a group this October. So tell us a little bit about I'm sure people are listening right now like sign me up. So how do people apply to come, and what kind of background would match best for someone who thinks they might be interested in doing this?

Kristina Jacobsen: 41:56

Yeah, yeah, so we're. We're running another one of registration is open. It's from October 7th through 20th, same locations, beginning in Astorga and ending in Travadello. We're doing a concert, and so you can learn a lot more about it on my website, which is singmebackhomesongwritingcom. And who is it best adapted to?

Kristina Jacobsen: 42:23

I would say, if you are a musician, if you are a writer, if you are a poet, if you are someone that wants to simply connect back to your own sense of creativity and creative process, or if that is feeling dormant, right Like you knew you had it at one point, but maybe it, you know, we got busy and and it sort of went out the window. This can be a wonderful way. So you don't have to be a songwriter, and you don't even have to be a musician. You need to have the desire to show up fully in a group setting and have a Camino experience that is, by definition, in a small group, you know. So we interact with other pilgrims, for sure, but the primary community we're building is between and among each other. So so that's important, that that sort of appeals and that's that's not everyone's Camino for sure and the desire to sort of grow yourself in fully, to writing a song a day with a new person that that you maybe had never met before you showed up in Spain.

Kristina Jacobsen: 43:34

So the desire, one of the big sort of things about the retreats I lead, is this idea of intercultural, intercultural communication. So, like this, one is led by lingually in Spanish and English. So that's a big part of it is so you know, we're very excited to have more Spanish participants and songs can show up in any language so they can be in Spanish, they can be an Occitan, they can be in English. Whatever I always say, whatever serves the song right. So, like, what is the song telling you, what's the story you want to tell and how do you best execute or or tell that story? So yeah, folks can. There's a contact form on my website which basically asks you a series of questions about why you want to participate in your musical experience and what's calling you about this specific place and this specific retreat, and then and then we do a zoom interview from from there.

Leigh Brennan: 44:27

I will have your website link in the show notes so people can easily go and find that and how many spots are available for this particular walk with with 10 spots 10 spots, okay. So, folks, they're going to go fast, for sure after people hear this show, for sure after the American pilgrims on the communal gathering, as more people meet you. So, folks, if you're interested, make sure you check out the website and get your application completed, because this sounds amazing I would shy.

Leigh Brennan: 44:56

We're a singer songwriter. I would sign up right away. It sounds fantastic. Well, how about we go out with a song that you wrote and this one is called I am a pilgrim? Tell us a little bit about that.

Kristina Jacobsen: 45:12

Yeah, this one I started writing earlier on this was still. The chorus reflects my questioning mindset of like is this worth it and why? Am I doing this right? So that the chorus is, you know, will I find it, I don't know, it being the thing, you know, the reason I'm doing this, the sort of the shift, the transformation I'm looking for, whatever that is, well, I find it, I don't know.

Kristina Jacobsen: 45:45

You know, each person walks around their own Camino La fortaleza más grande el amor. And when Camino Peregrino in La fortaleza más grande el amor is lifted literally off the wall of the convent in fromista, where on the side of it it's, it was written inside the dining area La fortaleza, la fortaleza más grande el amor, the largest, the greatest fortresses, love, right. And. And I was writing and I was stuck on a line and I looked up and I saw that and I was like, oh, that's pretty beautiful and, like you know, worked with the theme of the song in in many ways.

Kristina Jacobsen: 46:29

But yeah, so it's a song inspired by becoming a pilgrim, by by being sort of a wandering, by a my tenorate musician in some ways, and my identity and the way that I, that I lead my life, and and also by being a traveler and sort of identifying as a world traveler. So each verse explores a kind of different parts of what I'm, what I was looking for. And then in the end I was like you know, will I find it? Guess I'll know, I guess I'll know, you know, like, like. And so I was able the idea when I was writing the song was let go of all the questioning. It's okay to just you know, I'll know when I know. And so, arriving at some sort of sense of of closure or peace in the yeah, Sounds like you found that.

Kristina Jacobsen: 47:21

Yeah, I think I did. I feel very blessed to sort of have have arrived at some of the places that I, that I did. I mean it's for all of us. It's an ongoing journey, right, I wouldn't say it's like a one and done, but, but, but, but 100%. It gave me so much, yeah.

Leigh Brennan: 47:40

Well, I can't wait to meet you in person at the annual gathering, and I so appreciate you coming on the show. We're going to close out with your original song I am a pilgrim, dr Christina Jacobson. Thank you for coming to the communal cafe podcast.

Kristina Jacobsen: 47:56

Thank you.

: 48:11

Thank you. Oh, seeking sounds, I don't know. Oh, I am a traveler, seeking themselves inside the old one, seeking solace, seeking sky, seeking sustenance. And will I find it? I don't know, I don't know. Will it find me? Each person walks their own own path.

Leigh Brennan: 50:58

And that's it for this interview. Thanks for listening and please check out our weekly Camino news updates. We have a new show for you every Wednesday. Now stick around and listen to the featured songs we talked about during the interview today. Please take care and see you next week.

: 51:17

Music, daddy baby.

: 51:23

Yellow arrow clicker of sticks keepin' time to my heart. Soar be healing heart. Put on my shoes again. Just walk past the old baby. Can't stay down till I know. Soar be healing heart life about three miles an hour. Sit under a tree in a July shower. Sips them out in water. Run a stove on pound too Straight off track for a layman. She got a bond for Syrup. He just can't make me to the next town by her side.

: 52:23

Soar be healing heart. Hold mountains, straight, pools low, the sun beats down blisters on my heels. Got the deal right out the way. Soar be healing heart. Hold mountains straight, pools my calves at the Ramadelo albergue, pre-yoso. Soar be healing heart life about three miles an hour. Sit under a tree in a July shower. Sips them out in water. Run a stove on pound too Straight off track for a layman. She got a bond for Syrup. He just can't make me to the next town by her side. Soar be healing heart. Hold mountains, straight, pools low, the sun beats down blisters on my heels. At the Ramadelo albergue, pre-yoso. Soar be healing heart life about three miles an hour. Sit under a tree in a July shower. Sips them out in water.

: 54:23

Run a stove on pound too, upon the cloud, upon the stone, upon the arriving, the shimmering, we'll just all the stone of the nighting. They say there's hope, they say it heals. Am I so deserving? Be and pat the history to walk with those who came before, Over, younger, I can't see what's beyond the bend. One step and another, walk with me till the end. Distant thunder, face it on nowhere else to turn love for the journey. A desert in the storm.

: 55:27

Soar be healing heart life about three miles an hour. Sit under a tree in a July shower. Sips them out in water. Run a stove on pound too.

: 55:53

Upon the cloud, upon the stone, upon the arriving the shimmering, we'll just all the stone of the nighting. They say there's hope, they say it heals. Am I so deserving? Be and pat the history to walk with those who came before Over younger, I can't see what's beyond the bend. One step and another. Walk with me till the end Distant thunder face it on. Nowhere else to turn love for the journey. A desert in the storm.

: 56:48

Over younger. I can't see what's beyond the bend one step and another walk with me till the end. Distant thunder.

: 57:08

Face it on, nowhere else to turn love for the journey, a desert in the storm. Thank you for watching.