91 - Navigating the Camino de Santiago: Kari Gillespie’s Personal Pilgrimage Experience - 20 Camino Questions
Aug 01, 2023Episode 91
Leigh Brennan
Book Club Teaser! Meet our first featured author for the Santiago de Compostela Book Club in this short interview and then come to our meeting this Saturday, August 5th (registration links below).
We're thrilled to introduce you to Kari Gillespie, a UK-based pilgrim who shares the profound effect of her journey on the Camino de Santiago. This episode dives into her experiences, from the fears she grappled with before her first Camino to the emotional shifts and evolving relationship with pain she navigated during her journey. We also probe the key question of safety for women on the Camino and discuss John Brierley's influential book, which beautifully blends the practical and spiritual aspects of this journey.
In an enlightening exchange, Carrie presents invaluable tips for anyone considering walking the Camino for the first time. She discusses the subtle differences between walking solo or with a friend and how these choices can impact decisions like lodging. Lastly, we extend a warm invitation to our upcoming Santiago de Compostela book club meeting, where we'll continue unearthing the life-changing impact of the Camino de Santiago.
The Camino Cafe's intro and outro song with thanks to fellow Pilgrim, Jackson Maloney. Original Song - "Finnis Terre" - written and performed by Jackson Maloney - Singer, Musician, and Songwriter. Connect with Jackson: https://open.spotify.com/artist/3fdQsSqq9pDSwKcWlnBHKR
Book Club Teaser! Meet our first featured author for the Santiago de Compostela Book Club in this short interview and then come to our meeting this Saturday, August 5th (registration links below).
We're thrilled to introduce you to Kari Gillespie, a UK-based pilgrim who shares the profound effect of her journey on the Camino de Santiago. This episode dives into her experiences, from the fears she grappled with before her first Camino to the emotional shifts and evolving relationship with pain she navigated during her journey. We also probe the key question of safety for women on the Camino and discuss John Brierley's influential book, which beautifully blends the practical and spiritual aspects of this journey.
In an enlightening exchange, Carrie presents invaluable tips for anyone considering walking the Camino for the first time. She discusses the subtle differences between walking solo or with a friend and how these choices can impact decisions like lodging. Lastly, we extend a warm invitation to our upcoming Santiago de Compostela book club meeting, where we'll continue unearthing the life-changing impact of the Camino de Santiago.
The Camino Cafe's intro and outro song with thanks to fellow Pilgrim, Jackson Maloney. Original Song - "Finnis Terre" - written and performed by Jackson Maloney - Singer, Musician, and Songwriter. Connect with Jackson: https://open.spotify.com/artist/3fdQsSqq9pDSwKcWlnBHKR
Leigh Brennan:
I'm free. Everyone welcome back to the Camino.
Kari Gillespie:
Cafe podcast. I'm so excited to have you back here with me. We have a UK based pilgrim who wrote a memoir about her Camino, and that is Carrie Gillespie. And Carrie, welcome to the Camino Cafe. Hi, very nice to join you.
Leigh Brennan:
I've got my coffee ready.
Kari Gillespie:
Really excited, carrie, because her book is our very first book selection for the Santiago de Compostela book club and we have our first meeting this Saturday and we have a lot of people that are coming to this call, and we have a lot of people that are coming to this call and we have a lot of people that are so much excitement about this call. We have people from over 23 countries that are coming to this call, which you and I were just talking as we were Meeting, and everything here for this call that you know, it's a lot like a Camino, isn't it, that we have people from all around the world and what a great way it's going to be like the greatest Camino family, I think, on Saturday. So thank you for agreeing to be a part of this First meeting. So I would like to make sure you're all aware of that. If you haven't already registered for the call, please do so. The links will be in the show notes. It's also on our Facebook page as well as our Facebook group. So make sure you get the length, and the only way you can get to that is by registering. So please do so. So that's this.
Kari Gillespie:
Saturday, august 5th. We have two call times, one at 11 am Central European time and the other one is at eight pm Central European time. So you have two opportunities to make this call. So that's a great opportunity to have a chance to chat with you and you can come to either and you get to meet Carrie. So this is a super big bonus.
Kari Gillespie:
If you haven't yet read her book, that's okay, you're still welcome. If you have read her book, I know you're probably going to have questions for her. So this is a great opportunity to put a face with a name and to get to ask some more detailed questions about her book. Just to wet your appetite, we're going to play 20 communal questions. She has no idea what I'm going to ask her, but everybody knows here I don't ask anything that's going to trip you up. I don't know if you've heard of this before, but, carrie, are you ready for this challenge to play 20 communal questions? I think I am. We're going to start with number one, and that is you know a lot of women particularly ask is it safe for women to walk the Camino? And I just wonder you know what was it like for you? Did you feel safe? What was?
Leigh Brennan:
your situation. I felt safe. I did feel I felt really safe and I was walking with a friend, but there were sections of it, in fact most of the time during the day. We started off at the same time and we were walking together, but we we were walking together for a couple of minutes because our paces were slightly different, because I stopped to take lots of photographs, so we were separate for a lot of the time and I and I never felt unsafe and I felt always as if I was never too far from anyone. We're a couple of moments when we felt slightly freaked out, but but I think that happens wherever you are. But I know I felt very safe.
Kari Gillespie:
It was a really, really comfortable environment for me to be in Perfect Me too.
Leigh Brennan:
Well, I have to say it's John Bryl's kind of book which just touched my heart so much, and this month, particularly since we've lost him, that's the one. If I had to save one from the waves on my desert island, that would be the one I'd save. It was such a beautiful mixture of the practical path and the spiritual path and it was just what I needed as a new pilgrim. It really kind of spoke to me. I heard his voice almost as we were walking. Yes, yes.
Kari Gillespie:
Now I should say, the name of your memoir is Pilgrim Finding a New Way on the Camino de Santiago, and I wonder when did you decide you were going to write this book?
Leigh Brennan:
When I was walking I wrote a diary. I said to I told the family that I would keep in touch by writing a post each day. I didn't want to be too much on my phone and I really enjoyed that. But I had no intention of putting into a book. It was only when I came back and a number of life events happened in the months that followed my return that made me think maybe I can do something more with this. And people who'd followed the journey said to me you know, we really enjoyed your post. Maybe you could do something more with this.
Kari Gillespie:
How many caminos have you done with the one that you did for that book After?
Leigh Brennan:
that we did last year. We did the Portuguese from Porto and then we went on to Finistero, so that's another two, but it feels like kind of two in one, I agree. So that was another two, and I've actually done the pilgrims away in England from Winchester to Canterbury, which was interesting. That's three, three proper ones. Did you plan on walking another Camino? Yes, yes, I do. I'd really like to walk the new British Camino which goes from London to Walsingham, which is a Marian shrine in Norfolk, and I'd really like to do that one next. I think I'm also quite keen to do the Norte, but I'm just slightly anxious about the Norte. I feel like you've got to be super fit for that one, me too.
Kari Gillespie:
Okay. So on your next couple of walks, do you plan on walking solo, with another person or with a group? What do you prefer to do?
Leigh Brennan:
Well, I have a kind of inkling that I'd quite like to do it on my own, but my husband is really nervous. I think he has this feeling oh no, you shouldn't be on your own, but I think that I would like to walk solo. So I may do the Walsingham one solo, just to give that a go on. It's about two weeks, just to see how that feels. But I definitely have a little bit of a calling to do one on my own.
Leigh Brennan:
I love being part of our group, the Sturdy Girls, but I also wonder what it would be like to be by myself.
Kari Gillespie:
Okay, and you know, when you look back to that very first Camino, what was going through your mind? You know, you see on the Facebook post people asking like, oh, what about this, what about that? And there's a lot of worries out there. Could you think back like did you have a worry? And once you started walking, you're thinking I didn't need to worry about that?
Leigh Brennan:
I kind of went into it without having really read very much about the Camino. So my first Camino was in 2016 and I wasn't on any Facebook groups or anything like that. So my you know, what I understood about the Camino was very, very little. So I didn't have a huge amount of worry because I hadn't really overthought it before I went. I just kind of knew I wanted to go.
Leigh Brennan:
So my main worry was in the very in the first couple of days, when I realised it was sort of I was planning a walk, and when I realised it was a kind of pilgrimage, I was quite worried about that. I thought, oh, I don't know if I want this to be a communal experience, with strangers and people speaking to me. You know, I was quite kind of buttoned up and I wasn't sure how I felt about that. And that was my main worry those first couple of days was you know, is somebody going to start singing Kumbaya with me and is this really really uncomfortable? And it wasn't. You know, those worries I completely shared on the walk and I completely embraced the sort of communal aspect of it and there was a real kind of softening of my heart. That happened. That was just glorious.
Kari Gillespie:
So those worries.
Leigh Brennan:
I suppose it was good that I had the worries, because then there was then, you know, something really shifted in me as I walked.
Kari Gillespie:
Oh boy, okay, I'm gonna wanna dive into that when we have the book club, because that is very interesting. Okay, but next, since we're just doing the quick twinning communal questions, do you have just a couple of quick tips that you would give to first time walkers? You know somebody who's sitting here watching us and they're like, yeah, I really want to walk, but what would you tell them?
Leigh Brennan:
Firstly, just do it, just do it, don't overthink it, just do it, just go for it, and even if you think you're not fit enough, you get fit on the way. Don't let things hold you back, don't think everything has to be perfect for you to set off on the walk. And secondly, pack as light as you can. If you can make your pack under six kilograms, it will make a huge difference to how you feel on the walk. And so take absolutely the minimum, because you need so little, and that is part of the joy of the walk, really. Oh, my dog has joined us.
Kari Gillespie:
My dog's right behind us so he may join as well. We love having dogs at the communal camp. So let me ask you was there anything you took on that first Camino that you ended up throwing away or giving away or saying, oh why did I bring this?
Leigh Brennan:
On this last Camino I was persuaded to take a giant long extension cable to charge my phone A really long one, like two meters long or maybe three meters long and I really, really didn't need it and I should have shared it halfway. I'm too typefisted to carry it away, so I carried it the whole way. I absolutely didn't need it. On the first walk I think I took some toiletries that I dropped them in a bin. In Ronchesvayas there's a big bin that people put their conditioner and things in, and I think I had like a moisturizer and a conditioner or something that I just left there. I didn't need any of that.
Kari Gillespie:
My hair survived, beautiful. Okay, what was your favorite thing about your most recent Camino or last pilgrimage?
Leigh Brennan:
Actually I was completely blown away by seeing Finasterre, the lighthouse at Finasterre. As I came around the corner we were in sort of a long, long kind of path with lots of vegetation on either side and it clears at the end and you see the lighthouse and it was actually a really really moving moment, almost as moving as seeing the cathedral in Santiago. It felt really wonderful to be at the sea after that very long journey. Seeing it felt absolutely wonderful, really a moving moment.
Kari Gillespie:
And when you think back to that very first Camino, what was the most difficult thing for you?
Leigh Brennan:
I had a tendinitis in my shin, particularly in my right shin, and it was pretty painful and it was the sort of last third of the journey. So I think from Leon onwards, it sort of started in Leon and got gradually worse towards the end and there were moments, particularly in the morning, where I thought I don't know if I'm going to be able to keep on going. Luckily, the person I was walking with was a physio my best friend is a physio.
Leigh Brennan:
Everybody should be able to walk with Ali, because she's like a Camino saint and she figured out all kinds of strappings that got me there, and if I wasn't with Ali, I'm pretty certain I wouldn't have made it to Santiago. There were moments where pain proved something really to wrestle with and my relationship with pain really shifted.
Kari Gillespie:
Fascinating. Yeah well, we're going to dive into that during book club. For sure you know now that you've walked a couple of Caminos. Are you the kind of pilgrim that books ahead, or do you just leave your lodging to chance? What are you more comfortable with?
Leigh Brennan:
Well, it's quite funny because I'm definitely somebody who is absolutely happy to leave it to chance and just see what, just see what happens. And if it was me walking solo, that's definitely how I would do it.
Leigh Brennan:
But my friend Ali, who walked with me the whole way on the front, says it's less easygoing, I would say. And towards the end of the walk from Surya onwards she was really keen that we book, and this time on the Portuguese. A number of people had advised us that it's harder to get accommodation on the Portuguese, so we booked in advance on the Portuguese and actually it was very nice. It was lovely to just not have that worry. I adjusted very quickly to that easy. That also felt easy because we didn't have to think about it. That's good.
Leigh Brennan:
But I think if I was doing another Camino in Spain on my own, I'd Especially. If you're a one, it's quite easy to get a bed for one. If you're four of you, it's harder to get a bed for four weeks. I would also just go with the flow and see what the Camino provides me with.
Kari Gillespie:
Are you a bunk bed, kind of gal, or private room, or are we talking a parador, anytime when it's available and no shaming anyone, no shaming.
Leigh Brennan:
No, Well, on the last one, on the Portuguese, I did with the story to girls with my three best friends. We did a real mixture. So we had lots of dorms, lots of dorms and bunk beds and a couple of private, because on the Portuguese it's more difficult to find albergues. So there were a couple of private albergues where we had rooms for four and we finished in the parador in Santiago, which we didn't do the last time. So I've done a bit of everything and they're all lovely in their own way.
Kari Gillespie:
What about luggage transfer? How do you feel about that? Have you used it? Are you just like, no, I've got to carry everything kind of pilgrim.
Leigh Brennan:
We haven't used it. We carried our own things. And for me, because it's a kind of the walk as a sort of meditation, there was a kind of austerity in carrying everything that you need and it was a way for me to let go of things that don't matter by carrying everything I need on my back, and I really enjoyed that and it felt to me like a really important part of my journey. But I have absolutely no problem with anyone doing the Camino in any way that they choose. The most important thing is to be there and to be walking. It's none of my business what anybody else does with their luggage and I find it really upsetting actually on the Camino forums where people kind of wade in and start criticizing other people's choices. I don't know why that would be of any interest to anybody or anybody else is doing with their luggage.
Kari Gillespie:
I agree with you. I don't know why and we never know. We never know what someone's full story and there's many reasons that you might choose to do a Camino in a certain way at a certain point in your life. So I think, giving each other the space to do that and that's what I hope with these 20 Camino questions that we get across Right, it's like it's your own Camino, right?
Leigh Brennan:
Although at the beginning, when Ali and I were talking about it, we had both said, oh no, we won't carry our luggage and we'll get it transferred. And then we thought, well, maybe we could. And I thought in the beginning that I wouldn't be able to do it. I just thought, well, I can't do the walking and carry my luggage. And actually there was something really, really wonderful and really empowering in discovering that I could do it. So you know, I suppose if I was giving anybody advice, it would be give it a go, because you don't have to book it in advance, the luggage transfer. So you could take your luggage and carry it for a couple of days and if you're feeling good, carry on, and if not, then then get the transfer.
Kari Gillespie:
Oh yeah, I'm glad you said that because I mean, that's true. What if you all of a sudden you're having some kind of injury, like you talk about tinnitus? A great opportunity, as you can go ahead and ship some things on for a couple of days and let your body heal and maybe still walk some mileage or whatever, if needed. All right, what's your favorite food and drink to have while you're walking a Camino?
Leigh Brennan:
Well, there are so many. There are so many of the Spanish foods that I absolutely love, but I think probably the gambas ala here, the prawns and garlic, has probably been my absolute favorite. If I was doing a little tapas night somewhere like Lagrano, that would be the prawns and garlic. If I had to pick just one thing, I did have a deal in I forget the name of the town now, I forgot the name of it but where we we'd had a really difficult day and we had a plate of just grilled red peppers that were probably the most delicious thing I ate on the Camino. They were just like heaven. There was so soft and garlic and oil and they were just exactly exactly what we needed to be provided with that night.
Kari Gillespie:
Heaven, do you have a special drink? You know, are you just water?
Leigh Brennan:
only, or what? No, no, we were shipped at the Shrine of San Miguel every single night.
Kari Gillespie:
I love it, love it. Are you an early riser and you skip breakfast and eat a little later? Or are you the kind of pilgrim that eats a little bit in the morning and then has that infamous second pilgrim?
Leigh Brennan:
breakfast. Well, I mean, we were early risers. I liked walking at dawn, I thought it was absolutely beautiful, but I am also somebody who likes to eat. So I get really, I got really grumpy if the, if that breakfast didn't arrive fairly quickly, if it was beyond sort of five or six kilometers. It was a good company until we got to the coffee, the coffee in the Neapolitan. So I agree. So I'm a bit of both, but I did like to be up and out early and see the sunrise.
Kari Gillespie:
Yeah, the sun rises. If you could go back and tell yourself just one thing before that first Camino, what would you have told yourself?
Leigh Brennan:
Oh, that's a really good question. I think I would have just said just be open to it all, you know, just just have no expectations and just see, just see what's coming your way and just open your heart to it all.
Kari Gillespie:
Wonderful, and for you, carrie. If you had to give three words that would define what a pilgrim is to you, what would you?
Leigh Brennan:
say Accepting Um kind.
Kari Gillespie:
Welcoming, accepting kind and welcoming. Final question I should people come to the book club meeting on Saturday, what are they going to learn?
Leigh Brennan:
I don't know, I don't know I can share my story and if that in any way inspires people to go and walk the way, then then I really really hope they come, because the point of writing the book was really just to share a bit of the magic of the Camino and the impact that it had on me and the changes that it precipitated in my, in my life. And talking about the Camino with people who are interested you meet kind of like minded souls. So hopefully at the Camino group there'll be a, there'll be a group of people talking Camino and sharing in that kind of warmth and magic that comes from that Camino space.
Kari Gillespie:
You have two times to sign up. Make sure you pre register and we'll be looking forward to seeing you. It's going to be so much fun and please come Saturday. All right, everyone so next time. Camino, camino.
